John Fox saved his job...

[Sam Mills Fan]

How many people who cheered the firing of Dan Henning are second guessing it now?

If such a scenario were to happen, you might well handle it reasonably. I wouldn't bet on that being the majority opinion though. Patience isn't exactly commonplace in our crowd.

I understand not wanting to tolerate mediocrity, but there's a flipside. Should Fox be outsted, in his wake I don't want to see the Panthers become a team like the Redskins or the Raiders that just changes coaches willy nilly.

It's the lottery mentality. Fans have it fairly often, and are free to do so. Smart owners shouldn't.

I'm puzzled why this is a concern. John Fox is one of the longest-tenured coaches in the league. Unless I'm forgetting someone, only Andy Reid has been around longer in the NFC.

[firstdayfan]

I know I'm going to piss some people off by saying this but I think a lot of people have very unrealistic expectations in regards to records and success in the national football league. It is hard to win consistently in this league and if you look at the Raiders and other poor teams it becomes clear. Take the Rams for example, they were a dominating offense and Super Bowl team just under a decade ago...now they are absolutely horrible. The Browns almost went to the playoffs a few years back..now they shouldn't even be allowed to take the field. I guess my point is that I'd much rather have .500 seasons every now and then than be incredibly successful only to go through a few 4-12 seasons.

Teams that are consistently successful like the Patriots, Colts, Steelers, and Eagles have two things in common...tradition and great QB play. We are a young franchise in the grand scheme of things and we are still trying to gain respect. Let's keep the guy who has given us a reason to cheer for the last 7 years...John Fox has given this team some respect. I heard some sports guys talking the other day and they were like, "watch out for the panthers, they can run the ball and play good defense." We have more respect than most people think.

Or we can fire him because he didn't live up to our "lets go 11-5 every season" mentality...which is exactly why the Buccanears are 1-8 right now. If Fox could get a great QB then he can win a Super Bowl...I dont think anyone could say otherwise at this point.

[Sam Mills Fan]

Hey Sam Mills Fan, that coach on the left in you sig, how long did it take him to win a SB?

It's laughable to compare the two. Bill Cowher had a winning record and made the playoffs in EACH of his first six seasons in the NFL. Five division titles in just that stretch alone.

The Steelers were models of consistency and didn't have a bad season after every year where they had the slightest bit of success. Far from it.

[Kevin Greene]

7 wins, 10 wins, meh.

It's all expectations vs results.

So far the results don't meet my expectations.

[Sam Mills Fan]

I guess my point is that I'd much rather have .500 seasons every now and then than be incredibly successful only to go through a few 4-12 seasons.

You don't understand how absolutely wrong that is? I assume by "incredibly successful" that a Super Bowl trophy or two are thrown into the mix. I would gladly have one or two Super Bowl trophies followed by a decade of being the current Raiders if the other option is being the Panthers under John Fox. When it boils down to it, what is the difference between 7-9 and 4-12? Both are losing records and both mean that your team is bad. If you remember that fact and consider that the only goal a team should have is to win Super Bowls, I'd certainly take the Super Bowl wins followed up by a slew of 4-12s.

Or we can fire him because he didn't live up to our "lets go 11-5 every season" mentality...which is exactly why the Buccanears are 2-6 right now. If Fox could get a great QB then he can win a Super Bowl...I dont think anyone could say otherwise at this point.

That's incorrect. That's not why Gruden was fired. He was fired because TB started 9-3 and finished 9-7 and he lost the team in the process.

And I don't know why you think poor little Foxy just hasn't been able to find a great quarterback. Have you seen any real attempt to find a great quarterback? I sure haven't. I seem to remember him being part of the reason that the 30th worst starting quarterback in the league this season received a $20 million extension.

[KillerKat]

Not a great coach? He was a great coach from the beginning. He took a 1-15 team to 9-7 & then a Superbowl season the year after 9-7. That is far from being a mediocre coach there. While he is somewhat mediocre right now, but not 100% awful.

Uhh read my post where I stated things started downhill after the 2006 season.

Be glad we're not the Browns or Titans or Giants or whatever. And the coach & QB get us nowhere? How do you call the game where we beat a good team like the Cardinals & almost beating the Saints this year then? We didn't get nowhere at 0-3, but now we're clicking & may have a chance to get back to where we are. It may be early to say we're getting this far, but too early to say "nowhere" as well".

We beat the Cards cause Warner was having an off day and they aren't a very good team this year. The Saints game we lost because of...uhh..hmm..let me see...FOX! We're only good against bad teams. And we're not even consistant at that. See the Bills game.

The Eagles started at 0-2 during our Superbowl season & they gotten better as the time went by that year. Thing is many teams will go through this & we are an example of it right now.

The Eagles also went to what 3-4 NFC Championship games and including a Super Bowl? Compare that to us who are only good every other year and unconsistant.

Apologists & delusionists? Because some fans support some, they are apologists? Who the hell are you to accuse some of this kind of crap? We are fans & we should support the team no matter what. Otherwise, you sound like a bandwagon jumper with that kind of behavior & act like you're through with them if they don't give you everything you want or you hope they lose more so Fox or Delhomme are gone.

I see you have bad reading comprehension. Read that whole paragraph. That was specifically for those that think they're better than everyone else and are smug against those that are in reality.

"And as long as Fox & Jake are here, we won't get a Superbowl ring"? Funny, but we almost got that 6 yrs. ago if Kasay didn't miss a kick or there was more time. We can get there again if the whole team (not just Jake & Fox) play their ass off & never give up. Don't give me that the best QB can win a SB ring crap, 'cause Trent Dilfer wasn't a great QB compare to Jake & he won one with the Ravens. Or what about Brad Johnson winning one with the Bucs. Thing is, the team win the SB: not the QB alone as you & some others are babbling about.

I think it's hilarious that you bring up the Super Bowl run SIX YEARS AGO as if it has any relevance to today. And right now Delhomme is worse than what Dilfer and Johnson were.

Dilfer in the Super Bowl run: 12 TDs, 11 INTs

Johnson in the Super Bowl run: 22 TDs, 6 INTs and a Pro Bowl

Jake right now: 7 TDs and 13 INTs lol

FAIL

And when we win, some still cry & whine like "We won, but Jake still suck!!" over and over. So much for apologists when some of us happy we won, where other still cry about Jake or Fox or whatever they want to whine about when we win.

Those people are just stating reality. Jake only had 1 good game this year and that was Sunday. Any other win we had was in spite of Jake. Also, when you hear what you said in quotes, its in response to someone sucking off Jake and Fox despite what they've done through out most of the season or someone telling everyone else that they're dumb for doubting Jake and Fox.

There you go again with that same old crap over & over. Some of guys need to get over it. And stop acting like you can see the future with bringing that up, 'cause you don't know for sure like it's a fact. Again, anything is possible. If QB like Dilfer or Johnson that are somewhat mediocre can win a SB, so can Jake. Fact.

And again, there you go with you're misinformed verbal diarrhea. See above for the whole Dilfer and Johnson comparison to Jake.

Oh, if some of you fans are sick of it all, why you still root for them then? Hmm.....I wonder if some of you are fans or apologists yourself. Foods for thought.

We watch because the Panthers are our favorite team. Just because some actually recognizes problems with the team don't mean they should stop watching. They just see whats wrong with the team and want the team to be BETTER. We're tired of settling for mediocrity. You seem to be fine with mediocrity, good for you. Like I stated before, I want more than just a good season every now and then mixed with seasons at or below .500. I want us to win consistantly. I want us to win a Super Bowl eventually. If you think we can get one with Jake and Fox, you are sadly mistaken and are kidding yourself.

Thanks for trying to school me. Here's your cup of Fail.

[firstdayfan]

And I don't know why you think poor little Foxy just hasn't been able to find a great quarterback. Have you seen any real attempt to find a great quarterback? I sure haven't. I seem to remember him being part of the reason that the 30th worst starting quarterback in the league this season received a $20 million extension.

Peyton Manning's and Tom Brady's dont just fall off the trees. Its honestly a matter of opinion...when this team wasn't playing well I wanted Fox gone too because I thought he had lost his team and that his coaching style was flawed. But after rebounding and going 4-2 since the bye I have to believe that he is our best answer and has turned this team into a joke to a playoff contender. People always want something new when things are bad but in hinsight this could be a huge mistake for this franchise. Do you really think another coach could have done THAT much better with the team on the field? If so then thats your opinion.

I personally believe that getting a new coach which means a new scheme and system and way to do things will set us back 2 to 3 years. Or we can stick with Fox and have a realistic shot and being successful for the next 2 to 3 years. All so people can say, "wow we threw the ball 12 yards on a 3rd and 23 instead of running a draw play for 12 yards on a 3rd and 23. I promise that if Fox is fired he wont be out of a job for long...maybe not head coach right away because of his age but he will be somewhere and he will make a difference.

[Tank]

I think John Fox should stay. Hasn't he won more games in the NFC since he became the Panthers coach than any other coach? Tenure factores into that but without wins you don't stay around.

[Sloth]

We're a superbowl contender* every year** with Fox! He took us to the big game before!*** He stuck with Jake and he's really turned it around!****

* Above 500

** Every other year

*** 6 years ago

**** One good game

[Khyber53]

If the team is behind a coach, and playing its heart out, what happens when you fire the coach?

Think it through, folks.

Fox has proven that he can keep this team competitive, in season and over the long haul. And that, as a team owner, is what you really want. If your coach's low water mark was a 7-9 record, you keep him. When your coach's high water mark is 7-9, you let him go (see Dick Jauron).

When the season opens, you want the fans to have an expectation that they are going to see some great games and that their team has a shot at the playoffs and maybe the Super Bowl. You don't want to see the faithful trudging to the gates on opening day, bags in hand, ready to put them over their heads (think Cleveland or Detroit today or New Orleans and Tampa of the old days).

Fox has done wonders here and developed an identity for this team that doesn't include the words "expansion team" or "young franchise". He will continue to do so, and I seriously doubt if there has been any talk of firing him by anyone with the stroke to do so.

A few disgruntled, knee-jerk fans and sports reporters have beaten the drum, but really, they are just yanking their own chains and dreaming that they might have some power.

[Sloth]

If the team is behind a coach, and playing its heart out, what happens when you fire the coach?

Think it through, folks.

Fox has proven that he can keep this team competitive, in season and over the long haul. And that, as a team owner, is what you really want. If your coach's low water mark was a 7-9 record, you keep him. When your coach's high water mark is 7-9, you let him go (see Dick Jauron).

When the season opens, you want the fans to have an expectation that they are going to see some great games and that their team has a shot at the playoffs and maybe the Super Bowl. You don't want to see the faithful trudging to the gates on opening day, bags in hand, ready to put them over their heads (think Cleveland or Detroit today or New Orleans and Tampa of the old days).

Fox has done wonders here and developed an identity for this team that doesn't include the words "expansion team" or "young franchise". He will continue to do so, and I seriously doubt if there has been any talk of firing him by anyone with the stroke to do so.

A few disgruntled, knee-jerk fans and sports reporters have beaten the drum, but really, they are just yanking their own chains and dreaming that they might have some power.

He wins one year, gets a harder schedule, fails to go above .500 the next. Our identity is of a football team that will never be terrible, but won't be very good unless EVERYTHING goes our way during the season. We're also known as a team that can't handle ANY type of press or expectations. We wilt under the spotlight.

Anyways, I for one am happy to be known as a team that's always not terrible.

Give him another 6 years or so and we may actually get to lose another Super Bowl.

[Mr. Scot]

If the team is behind a coach, and playing its heart out, what happens when you fire the coach?

Think it through, folks.

It's a valid point. Though in fairness there were players who defended Seifert even after 1-15.

People are not always objective when it comes to the performances of someone they work with and like.

But again, willingness to play for a coach and get behind a QB factors into performance too. It's a tough call.

Fox has proven that he can keep this team competitive, in season and over the long haul. And that, as a team owner, is what you really want. If your coach's low water mark was a 7-9 record, you keep him. When your coach's high water mark is 7-9, you let him go (see Dick Jauron).

When the season opens, you want the fans to have an expectation that they are going to see some great games and that their team has a shot at the playoffs and maybe the Super Bowl. You don't want to see the faithful trudging to the gates on opening day, bags in hand, ready to put them over their heads (think Cleveland or Detroit today or New Orleans and Tampa of the old days).

Fox has done wonders here and developed an identity for this team that doesn't include the words "expansion team" or "young franchise". He will continue to do so, and I seriously doubt if there has been any talk of firing him by anyone with the stroke to do so.

Valid, but there also comes a 'saturation point' where the guys have heard all your speeches, know all your techniques, etc. When you hit that point you're going through the motions.

Ask yourself this question: Given one more year, would Tony Dungy have taken the Bucs to the Super Bowl? Dungy is, by all accounts, a great coach. He had the Bucs knocking at the door, but could he have taken them the next step? Or, rather, did they need one missing element that Dungy couldn't give them, something Jon Gruden did?

(yes, beyond that one year, Gruden largely stunk, but you see the point)

It is possible that Fox has taken the team as far as he can, and a missing element from someone else is needed to get them over the hump. Likewise it's also possible that what Fox can't quite do here, he could do with a new team, same as Dungy. Both of these are fairly common scenarios.

[DaveThePanther2008]

He wins one year, gets a harder schedule, fails to go above .500 the next. Our identity is of a football team that will never be terrible, but won't be very good unless EVERYTHING goes our way during the season. We're also known as a team that can't handle ANY type of press or expectations. We wilt under the spotlight.

Anyways, I for one am happy to be known as a team that's always not terrible.

Give him another 6 years or so and we may actually get to lose another Super Bowl.

Or maybe we could be like the Raiders and win 20 games in the next 5 yrs.

[Sloth]

Or maybe we could be like the Raiders and win 20 games in the next 5 yrs.

Yeah, better stand pat. Good enough is good enough.