John Fox saved his job...

[Sam Mills Fan]

Good point KillerKat. You could freeze John Fox and Jake Delhomme at their current ages for the next century and the Panthers would never win a single championship with them at the top. It just won't be happening.

[Mr. Scot]

Of course. Have you seen the coaches that will be available for next season? Cowher, Shanahan, Holmgren....all of them had multiple back-to-back winning seasons, never went five years without a playoff win, and all have Super Bowl rings. And they're all better than John Fox.

And there are many promising coordinators out there as well, although the failure of most rookie head coaches that were coordinators last year makes me a little nervous towards going after one.

No coach has ever won a Super Bowl ring with two different teams. I don't know that I'm willing to bank on the notion that we could get the first guy to do it.

I'd rather have an up and coming coordinator. If it's a retread, I'd rather have a guy that's been good and gotten close, but hasn't won the big one just yet.

[Mr. Scot]

Im so tired of mediocrity being accepted. Im so tired of sticking with something that doesn't work just because of the uncertainty of something new. It drives me crazy. It also drives me crazy that other fans accept this. That they are just fine with supporting a coach and QB that will get us no where.

We have one game ONE GAME where we play like we were supposed to starting week 1 not week f**king 10 and the apologists and delusionists come out of the wood work, sticking up their noses at everyone else who knows that as long as Fox and Jake are here we aren't getting a Super Bowl ring. When we are bad, they make excuses. When we are good, they act like they're better than anyone else that actually is in reality. Its the same ol song and dance and Im sick of it.

There is no other simple way to put it. If you are fine with just a good season here and there mixed in with seasons at or below .500, good for you. But other fans want more than that and as long as Fox is here and as long as Jake is our QB we can all kiss our Super Bowl wishes good bye.

I can understand, but there's some unpleasant realities to contemplate.

If Fox goes elsewhere and wins it all while the Panthers slide from being a middling team to a bad team under the guidance of a new guy, fans will be crying "Why did we let him go?" (ignoring the fact that he might not have been able to achieve the same success here under the given circumstances)

Yes, it's a very real possibility. And I say this from the perspective of someone who's willing to entertain the notion of change at the top.

[KillerKat]

I can understand, but there's some unpleasant realities to contemplate.

If Fox goes elsewhere and wins it all while the Panthers slide from being a middling team to a bad team under the guidance of a new guy, fans will be crying "Why did we let him go?" (ignoring the fact that he might not have been able to achieve the same success here under the given circumstances)

Yes, it's a very real possibility. And I say this from the perspective of someone who's willing to entertain the notion of change at the top.

I'll still be fine with that. If he has success CONSISTANTLY elsewhere, good for him. Because he sure hasn't had that here. Im fine with going through the pains until we finally find a coach that can help us win consistantly and who can get us a ring. Sticking with the same because you're afraid of what's to come is getting a little too old.

[Jangler]

If he would just stop the "playing not to lose" mentality in the second half I would feel alot better about his chances and the team.

[Sam Mills Fan]

John Fox will never win a Super Bowl ring as a head coach. I'm not too worried about that.

[Mr. Scot]

I'll still be fine with that. If he has success CONSISTANTLY elsewhere, good for him. Because he sure hasn't had that here. Im fine with going through the pains until we finally find a coach that can help us win consistantly and who can get us a ring. Sticking with the same because you're afraid of what's to come is getting a little too old.

How many people who cheered the firing of Dan Henning are second guessing it now?

If such a scenario were to happen, you might well handle it reasonably. I wouldn't bet on that being the majority opinion though. Patience isn't exactly commonplace in our crowd.

I understand not wanting to tolerate mediocrity, but there's a flipside. Should Fox be outsted, in his wake I don't want to see the Panthers become a team like the Redskins or the Raiders that just changes coaches willy nilly.

It's the lottery mentality. Fans have it fairly often, and are free to do so. Smart owners shouldn't.

[KillerKat]

How many people who cheered the firing of Dan Henning are second guessing it now?

If such a scenario were to happen, you might well handle it reasonably. I wouldn't bet on that being the majority opinion though. Patience isn't exactly commonplace in our crowd.

I understand not wanting to tolerate mediocrity, but there's a flipside. Should Fox be outsted, in his wake I don't want to see the Panthers become a team like the Redskins or the Raiders that just changes coaches willy nilly.

It's the lottery mentality. Fans have it fairly often, and are free to do so. Smart owners shouldn't.

I don't understand those that are second guessing the Henning situation. Henning sucked while he was here. Just becuase he's having success elsewhere doesn't mean he would've had the same here. It's good that he left.

I think the firing of a coach depends on what he does within 3-5 years. If most of the years he's mediocre, its time for a change.

Fox improved the team his first year, then Super Bowl 2nd year, then got hit with the injury bug his 3rd year and still almost made the playoffs, then went to the NFC Championship game in 2005.

But then came 2006 and 2007. Both at or below .500. Then 2008 with the way we lost in the playoffs....then how we've been playing this year....All enough to make a good owner realize that its time to move on.

[Mr. Scot]

I don't understand those that are second guessing the Henning situation. Henning sucked while he was here. Just because he's having success elsewhere doesn't mean he would've had the same here. It's good that he left.

I agree, but this is something that many won't necessarily accept.

I think the firing of a coach depends on what he does within 3-5 years. If most of the years he's mediocre, its time for a change.

Fox improved the team his first year, then Super Bowl 2nd year, then got hit with the injury bug his 3rd year and still almost made the playoffs, then went to the NFC Championship game in 2005.

But then came 2006 and 2007. Both at or below .500. Then 2008 with the way we lost in the playoffs....then how we've been playing this year....All enough to make a good owner realize that its time to move on.

I can agree in principle, but as many variables as there are to a football season, I have a hard time setting timetables. There are certainly good coaches - even great coaches - whose approaches took time to pay off.

I've said before that the tipping point for me is the belief that things have gone bad beyond the ability for the current leadership to repair them. While I think it's possible that by season's end we could be in that spot, I'm hesitant to say we're already there.

[PantherDude]

John Fox isn't a great coach. He's not a terrible coach. He's a mediocre coach and his teams reflect his mediocrity.

Not a great coach? He was a great coach from the beginning. He took a 1-15 team to 9-7 & then a Superbowl season the year after 9-7. That is far from being a mediocre coach there. While he is somewhat mediocre right now, but not 100% awful.

It also drives me crazy that other fans accept this. That they are just fine with supporting a coach and QB that will get us no where.

Be glad we're not the Browns or Titans or Giants or whatever. And the coach & QB get us nowhere? How do you call the game where we beat a good team like the Cardinals & almost beating the Saints this year then? We didn't get nowhere at 0-3, but now we're clicking & may have a chance to get back to where we are. It may be early to say we're getting this far, but too early to say "nowhere" as well".

We have one game ONE GAME where we play like we were supposed to starting week 1 not week f**king 10

The Eagles started at 0-2 during our Superbowl season & they gotten better as the time went by that year. Thing is many teams will go through this & we are an example of it right now.

apologists and delusionists come out of the wood work, sticking up their noses at everyone else who knows that as long as Fox and Jake are here we aren't getting a Super Bowl ring.

Apologists & delusionists? Because some fans support some, they are apologists? Who the hell are you to accuse some of this kind of crap? We are fans & we should support the team no matter what. Otherwise, you sound like a bandwagon jumper with that kind of behavior & act like you're through with them if they don't give you everything you want or you hope they lose more so Fox or Delhomme are gone.

"And as long as Fox & Jake are here, we won't get a Superbowl ring"? Funny, but we almost got that 6 yrs. ago if Kasay didn't miss a kick or there was more time. We can get there again if the whole team (not just Jake & Fox) play their ass off & never give up. Don't give me that the best QB can win a SB ring crap, 'cause Trent Dilfer wasn't a great QB compare to Jake & he won one with the Ravens. Or what about Brad Johnson winning one with the Bucs. Thing is, the team win the SB: not the QB alone as you & some others are babbling about.

When we are bad, they make excuses. When we are good, they act like they're better than anyone else that actually is in reality. Its the same ol song and dance and Im sick of it.

And when we win, some still cry & whine like "We won, but Jake still suck!!" over and over. So much for apologists when some of us happy we won, where other still cry about Jake or Fox or whatever they want to whine about when we win.

But other fans want more than that and as long as Fox is here and as long as Jake is our QB we can all kiss our Super Bowl wishes good bye.

There you go again with that same old crap over & over. Some of guys need to get over it. And stop acting like you can see the future with bringing that up, 'cause you don't know for sure like it's a fact. Again, anything is possible. If QB like Dilfer or Johnson that are somewhat mediocre can win a SB, so can Jake. Fact.

Oh, if some of you fans are sick of it all, why you still root for them then? Hmm.....I wonder if some of you are fans or apologists yourself. Foods for thought.

[Porn Shop Clerk]

Wouldn't mediocre being going 8-8 every season? Or going 12-4 just to go 4-12 the next season?

There's only one team that makes the playoffs every year in the NFL, and they didn't make it last year, and might not make it this year.

We didn't have back to back winning seasons before Fox got here either.

I think most 'apologists' realize that if we do get rid of Fox, we'll most likely end up regretting it.

Course, most of the fire Fox crowd fails to realize that without Fox, they'd be fans of some other NFL team.

[DaveThePanther2008]

It comes down to execution. Whether the turnovers by Jake, or the poor play of special teams or costly fumbles. John Fox and staff can prepare all they want, if the players don't execute or make mistakes is it really their fault. Do you fire the whole coaching staff? Is that really going to fix the mistakes? The players have to look for themselves.

Look at the Buffalo game. Statistically we dominated the game. Two costly turnovers and GAME OVER.

Since then we have been playing better football. If D Will hadn't fumble against N.O. we were we a position to win that game against arguable the best team in the NFL.

The second half is upon us. We can win EVERY game. Sure we will have to play flawless but every team is beatable including NE and Minnesota. We have to play Panther football and not play catch up.

IMO firing Fox may not be the answer. A new coach could make things worse.

Go Panthers

[The Question]

No. If we flop against the rest of our schedule which is as we all know a tough one, it shows that we're not close to where we should be with our talent..and that everyone not wearing pads and a helmet needs to be kindly kicked the fug out of Dodge.

[88 Bronco]

Hey Sam Mills Fan, that coach on the left in you sig, how long did it take him to win a SB?