A critique of Darnold through 4 games

[frankw]

3 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Let me get this straight, I'm hearing that you do not think a qb is franchise unless he brings his team back from behind in the 4th quarter, correct? How many times does he have to do that successfully or is it some arbitrary number?

So having said that how do you qualify a qb that rarely puts his team in that position to begin with?  Just for future reference. 

It's not the only way to determine franchise qb status but winning games late when you are down is a huge part of becoming that. The clutch gene. The last Carolina Panthers franchise quarterback had to check that box too. Both were top 3 draft picks. It comes with the territory.

[mav1234]

30 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Let me get this straight, I'm hearing that you do not think a qb is franchise unless he brings his team back from behind in the 4th quarter, correct? How many times does he have to do that successfully or is it some arbitrary number?

So having said that how do you qualify a qb that rarely puts his team in that position to begin with?  Just for future reference. 

Realistically speaking there's a lot of ways he can show the clutch I'm looking for. Tbh, he has shown an ability to stem bleeding and secure wins, and also lead consecutive scoring drives while we were down, both things that are very promising.  So, it's more about building on that, having that consistency. 

If he was never put in a position the rest of the season to lead game winning drives or something but continues at his current clip of production, Id probably still be sold. Personally, I'd just like to see him lead the team to wins when given that opportunity to really secure his place here.  On the other hand, if he does that but then sucks in other ways...

It's all about overall production and opportunity. I'm not looking for single stats or things in isolation. And of course I don't make the decisions anyway.

[Jon Snow]

21 minutes ago, frankw said:

It's not the only way to determine franchise qb status but winning games late when you are down is a huge part of becoming that. The clutch gene. The last Carolina Panthers franchise quarterback had to check that box too. Both were top 3 draft picks. It comes with the territory.

It is an arbitrary metric that discounts all the great play that prevented the team from getting themselves in that situation to begin with.  

Say they had to come from behind in 7 of 17 games.  They were successful in 3 of those.  By that they would have a 13-4 record.  Who gets credit for that? By your standards he has roughly a 42% comeback rate, whatever that means.  Does that mean a qb on a 13-4 team in not a franchise qb?

So bottom line is if the team is winning in part by the play of the qb then he's a franchise qb. Unless you think this team can win without him then I guess my questions are answered. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Jon Snow

[mav1234]

2 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

It is an arbitrary metric that discounts all the great play that prevented the team from getting themselves in that situation to begin with.  

Say they had to come from behind in 7 of 17 games.  They were successful in 3 of those.  By that they would have a 13-4 record.  Who gets credit for that? By your standards he has roughly a 42% comeback rate, whatever that means.  Does that mean a qb on a 13-4 team in not a franchise qb?

So bottom line is if the team is winning in part by the play of the qb then he's a franchise qb. Unless you think this team can win without him then I guess my questions are answered. 

I don't personally care about rates etc. Im just looking for Darnold to take the opportunities presented to him. If he never gets thm, he's probably playing so well it doesn't even matter.  But I think he will.

Before Dallas I may have argued this team could win without great QB play... Not anymore tho. it's clear we need Sam to be all he can be, and he has exceeded expectations so far.  I hope we get him some OL help somehow tho, it's unfair to ask him to run like hell all game.

[Jon Snow]

5 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

I don't personally care about rates etc. Im just looking for Darnold to take the opportunities presented to him. If he never gets thm, he's probably playing so well it doesn't even matter.  But I think he will.

Before Dallas I may have argued this team could win without great QB play... Not anymore tho. it's clear we need Sam to be all he can be, and he has exceeded expectations so far.  I hope we get him some OL help somehow tho, it's unfair to ask him to run like hell all game.

That's all I'm trying to say.  There are expectations like not being the reason we lose, and there are unreasonable expectations like bringing the team back from a 20 point deficit every damn game.  

If we are only trying to mount a comeback in 1 out of every 4 games then personally that's pretty damn good to me.

Edited October 8, 2021 by Jon Snow

[mav1234]

2 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

That's all I'm trying to say.  There are expectations like not being the reason we lose, and there are unreasonable expectations like bringing the team back from a 20 point deficit every damn game.  

If we are only trying to mount a comeback in 1 out of every 4 games then personally that's pretty damn good to me.

Oh for sure. In his first year as a starter for us he's on pace for 40 TDs, lol. And it feels like he still has room to grow.  We haven't had that kind of QB production since 2015... 

[frankw]

31 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

It is an arbitrary metric that discounts all the great play that prevented the team from getting themselves in that situation to begin with.  

Say they had to come from behind in 7 of 17 games.  They were successful in 3 of those.  By that they would have a 13-4 record.  Who gets credit for that? By your standards he has roughly a 42% comeback rate, whatever that means.  Does that mean a qb on a 13-4 team in not a franchise qb?

So bottom line is if the team is winning in part by the play of the qb then he's a franchise qb. Unless you think this team can win without him then I guess my questions are answered. 

Well remember it's not about how you start but how you finish. This group learned that firsthand after being up on the Cowboys in the first half. Sam's resiliency is what has impressed me most and he has shown he can quickly bounce back from mistakes so I expect he will make this happen so it's only a matter of when. I think most here have been quite fair overall to Darnold and that is why the oline has been such a point of debate people want to see him reach his potential while also acknowledging we need to make the most of opportunities.

[glenwo2]

4 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

Let me get this straight, I'm hearing that you do not think a qb is franchise unless he brings his team back from behind in the 4th quarter, correct? How many times does he have to do that successfully or is it some arbitrary number?

So having said that how do you qualify a qb that rarely puts his team in that position to begin with?  Just for future reference. 

I know, right?

That's almost as ridiculous as someone believing that Passing TDs by our QB are way more important than Rushing TDs by our QB.  

[Spatric]

gents, jetfan here.  Sam is playing better now than anytime in NY, IMHO, and I believe as he get more comfortable with the O and schemes, WR and CMC, it will be much better. Like NY, the OL has issues and hopefully they will start to use his legs more on planned rollouts because he is accurate on the run.  Just my two cents. 

PS:  Fix the OL - easier said then done- and he will improve esp with respect to decision making.  I watched a few games and his mechanics are much better which was a big problem in NY... anyway...good luck Sunday. 

[mav1234]

14 hours ago, Spatric said:

gents, jetfan here.  Sam is playing better now than anytime in NY, IMHO, and I believe as he get more comfortable with the O and schemes, WR and CMC, it will be much better. Like NY, the OL has issues and hopefully they will start to use his legs more on planned rollouts because he is accurate on the run.  Just my two cents. 

PS:  Fix the OL - easier said then done- and he will improve esp with respect to decision making.  I watched a few games and his mechanics are much better which was a big problem in NY... anyway...good luck Sunday. 

Thanks man! I really hope Saleh can turn it around for you guys, and that Wilson can get the help he needs to excel.  

The Panthers worked hard (and I'm sure still do) on consistency in Darnolds mechanics and it looks like it's paying off. 

[GRWatcher]

18 hours ago, Spatric said:

gents, jetfan here.  Sam is playing better now than anytime in NY, IMHO, and I believe as he get more comfortable with the O and schemes, WR and CMC, it will be much better. Like NY, the OL has issues and hopefully they will start to use his legs more on planned rollouts because he is accurate on the run.  Just my two cents. 

PS:  Fix the OL - easier said then done- and he will improve esp with respect to decision making.  I watched a few games and his mechanics are much better which was a big problem in NY... anyway...good luck Sunday. 

Good luck to the Jets too. Just beat the Falcons tomorrow. That's all I ask of the Jets. 

[glenwo2]

3 hours ago, GRWatcher said:

Good luck to the Jets too. Just beat the Falcons tomorrow. That's all I ask of the Jets. 

It's a very winnable game for even the Jets.  

[SBBlue]

On 10/8/2021 at 10:03 PM, Spatric said:

gents, jetfan here.  Sam is playing better now than anytime in NY, IMHO, and I believe as he get more comfortable with the O and schemes, WR and CMC, it will be much better. Like NY, the OL has issues and hopefully they will start to use his legs more on planned rollouts because he is accurate on the run.  Just my two cents. 

PS:  Fix the OL - easier said then done- and he will improve esp with respect to decision making.  I watched a few games and his mechanics are much better which was a big problem in NY... anyway...good luck Sunday. 

Welcome.

Congrats on your Tenn win.

I was impressed with your fanbase at the Panthers home game.  The ones in my section were very nice people.  

Edited October 10, 2021 by SBBlue

[LinvilleGorge]

I still had a sliver of hope when I made this thread, but I was concerned. The problems I saw in NY were starting to show up in a major way. That trend has continued and he's in full blown Jets mode now. Darnold is broken. Honestly, he's probably going to have to earn a backup role in the NFL after this. He'll be brought in somewhere to compete, but I don't think anyone will gift wrap a roster spot for him.