A critique of Darnold through 4 games

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, TheRumGone said:

Yeah and thats fair considering we have zero other options right now. But if by the end of the season it’s obvious Darnold can’t elevate the team I hope this staff looks seriously about the qbs coming out next year. 

No argument. But with that said, next year's QB class isn't looking so hot and we might not be in the best position to draft one.

I know from Jeff Howe's recent article that so far they've been pretty happy with him and are thinking extension if he continues to progress.

(not necessarily blockbuster extension, but extension)

Edited October 4, 2021 by Mr. Scot

[thefuzz]

52 minutes ago, 1usctrojan said:

That’s the thing though…..he has top of the first round talent, he should be playing that way.  Place your expectations as the third pick overall, nothing less, bet the coaches are.  Judging by Sam’s somber affect in the post game interview, he does as well.  

The discussion should not be if he was worth a second and fourth round picks, but is he worth building your offense around?  Can’t imagine a franchise would let Fields fall in their lap, only to pass him by for Sam if they didn’t feel he had franchise potential, especially if they feel they won’t be selecting as high as the eighth pick again.  Do you think the coaches brought him in as a quality second string QB?  
 

I get what Linville is saying, it brings valid observations for discussion, and a lot was given up to do that, forget what he said before, the OP is a good discussion post.  

Not sure what you are getting at, but my point is this...they said they were treating him as a rookie this season...well, so far, he has far outplayed every actual rookie in the NFL.

I'm not 100% sure if Sam can be a "franchise" guy...whatever that means, but with a good defense, and another year in the system, and getting our best player back...this seems like a QB we can win with....consistently...and we are getting a couple cheap years to make sure thats the case.

[bigdavis]

11 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Might try re-reading.

Ah yes, the old pithy dismissal.  Lazy and the hallmark of a guy who doesn't want to answer a simple question.

Oh, and if you missed my question, it was about Release Time.  Do you have those stats?  Would love to know where Sam stands on that metric, vs all other QBs, not just rookies.

[TLGPanthersFan]

2 hours ago, glenwo2 said:

And you are sooo rooting for him to fail so you can say "Ha Ha! See? SEE??  Now let's go get DeShaun Watson!!!"

 

Why do people keep coming back to Deshaun. I don’t want Deshaun. Sam can be a good plug until we find someone better. That is all I am saying. Nothing in what I said made me support him failing. 
But I, unlike a lot of this board, will not crown him as a long term starter. Not yet. 

[LinvilleGorge]

40 minutes ago, bigdavis said:

Ah yes, the old pithy dismissal.  Lazy and the hallmark of a guy who doesn't want to answer a simple question.

Oh, and if you missed my question, it was about Release Time.  Do you have those stats?  Would love to know where Sam stands on that metric, vs all other QBs, not just rookies.

Says the guy who evidently missed at least half of the initial post you were responding to. What are you talking about in terms of "release time"? Time to throw is the time from receiving the snap to releasing the ball.  All rankings I posted were vs all other QBs not just rookies.

[glenwo2]

1 hour ago, TheRumGone said:

Yeah and thats fair considering we have zero other options right now. But if by the end of the season it’s obvious Darnold can’t elevate the team I hope this staff looks seriously about the qbs coming out next year. 

On the one hand, you are correct.

But as PghPanther just pointed out, the O-Line's deficiencies must be included in the assessment of Sam's performance.

Thus far, considering that, Sam's a friggin' MIRACLE WORKER to be able to be effective with that gongshow in front of him.

[glenwo2]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

No argument. But with that said, next year's QB class isn't looking so hot and we might not be in the best position to draft one.

I know from Jeff Howe's recent article that so far they've been pretty happy with him and are thinking extension if he continues to progress.

(not necessarily blockbuster extension, but extension)

By extension, it's more likely going to be for longer TERM than for bigger money.

 

[glenwo2]

34 minutes ago, TLGPanthersFan said:

Why do people keep coming back to Deshaun. I don’t want Deshaun. Sam can be a good plug until we find someone better. That is all I am saying. Nothing in what I said made me support him failing. 
But I, unlike a lot of this board, will not crown him as a long term starter. Not yet. 

This right here is why I get on your case.

A good plug until we find someone better?   Like...f'n really?? 

Name me a QB out there in the near future that the Panthers will go sign. 

The thing about Sam Darnold is that this guy is essentially a "rookie"(since he's finally getting actual coaching this year) and is excelling eons from where he was.  

He is so much more than "a good plug". 

Teddy Asswater was a "good plug". 

Edited October 4, 2021 by glenwo2

[LinvilleGorge]

11 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

On the one hand, you are correct.

But as PghPanther just pointed out, the O-Line's deficiencies must be included in the assessment of Sam's performance.

Thus far, considering that, Sam's a friggin' MIRACLE WORKER to be able to be effective with that gongshow in front of him.

That's kinda my main point. Darnold actually seems to play better when the OL performs like ass. The more time he has, the worse the results trend. It's odd. It's the opposite of what you'd normally expect.

[TheRumGone]

11 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

On the one hand, you are correct.

But as PghPanther just pointed out, the O-Line's deficiencies must be included in the assessment of Sam's performance.

Thus far, considering that, Sam's a friggin' MIRACLE WORKER to be able to be effective with that gongshow in front of him.

The oline is bad and needs to be upgraded as much as possible. But it goes both ways.

He has processing issues in the pocket. Really like to see him get quicker. He’s really good in scramble drill and plays outside the pocket. This right here is stuff he needs to work on the most. 

[bigdavis]

21 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

What are you talking about in terms of "release time"?

I can't believe you haven't heard the term.  It's not the time from the snap to the release, of which you speak.  It's the time from the windup to the release, how quickly the ball gets delivered, the throwing motion, if you will, once the decision is made to throw it.  I'm surmising that Sam's "release time" is very fast, a flick of the wrist, not some big Tebowesque windup, and that could somewhat offset what you state is a slow TT.  Can you access that time?

https://www.wolfsports.com/nfl/tom-brady-jimmy-garoppolo-among-quickest-nfl-quarterback-releases-throwing-motions/

[1usctrojan]

16 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That's kinda my main point. Darnold actually seems to play better when the OL performs like ass. The more time he has, the worse the results trend. It's odd. It's the opposite of what you'd normally expect.

This may sound crazy (it is), but when Sam was thrown into the fourth game at SC, with all the loud calls for all the coaches to be fired, the coaches stood back and let him play his game when the offense took an about face with him in charge.  It was all Sam.  
 

Wonder if he was so good at the back yard, natural talent of his game, the processing and fundamentals of the position never developed.  He has a lot of basketball player in his game.

Edited October 4, 2021 by 1usctrojan

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, bigdavis said:

I can't believe you haven't heard the term.  It's not the time from the snap to the release, of which you speak.  It's the time from the windup to the release, how quickly the ball gets delivered, the throwing motion, if you will, once the decision is made to throw it.  I'm surmising that Sam's "release time" is very fast, a flick of the wrist, not some big Tebowesque windup, and that could somewhat offset what you state is a slow TT.  Can you access that time?

https://www.wolfsports.com/nfl/tom-brady-jimmy-garoppolo-among-quickest-nfl-quarterback-releases-throwing-motions/

He seems to have a fast release but that matters more for DB reaction time than it does for the pass rush. 2.9 seconds for the pass rush to get there is still 2.9 seconds regardless of how much of that time is spent in the actual throwing motion.

[Supbro]

29 minutes ago, TheRumGone said:

The oline is bad and needs to be upgraded as much as possible. But it goes both ways.

He has processing issues in the pocket. Really like to see him get quicker. He’s really good in scramble drill and plays outside the pocket. This right here is stuff he needs to work on the most. 

His first read looks to be Robby which is a deeper route and taking a longer time to develop. The checkdowns are available but the line at this point doesn't seem like a complete mess. I mean people complained about Teddy checking down and the trade off is the deeper routes are going to take longer to develop that maybe this line isn't adequate enough to handle.