Why odd fronts don't work vs the run

[woahfraze]

Part of the reason our run defense was so good in weeks 1 through 3 was due to excellent execution out of odd man fronts.  Check out Brett Kollman's recent video on the subject.  It can work.  But Dallas has a much better offense than the three teams we've played thus far, so our true talent level isn't what we've shown thus far--the numbers weren't sustainable. But more importantly we didn't execute today across the board.  

[lightsout]

YGM is an element I don't think I accounted for. Perhaps the secondary injuries plus not having him, we didnt feel confident in our DL depth to run 4 down for half the game? Idk.

[CPF4LIFE]

YGM would have been great for this game. He is a beast against the run. Im not one for excuses but injuries kept us hampered today but nobody is gonna give us that tho. Only our opponents. 

[Daddy_Uncle]

Its all about in season adjustments. If teams are adjusting to us, we have to adjust back

[Proudiddy]

Great thread.  You did a much better job breaking it down than I would and the reasons why it caused us problems, but it was clear that it was run fits and gap control dhe to the alignments.  There was a play early where they broke off a long run where right before the snap, I noticed we ran 3 down linemen, and Reddick was aligned to the outside of the tackle and leaned in at an angle...  and right before they snapped it, I felt like it left a lot of real estate in the middle...  the first 3 weeks of the season we were used to bullying the opponent into passing and pinning our ears back when they did.  We also did that in those games because guys were making incredible plays against the run in 1 on 1 situations and attacking downhill.  Today, we missed a ton of tackles, took some bad angles, and just looked sloppy.  We weren't able to force them into passing like we did the teams in weeks 1-3, and it was because we didn't play the run.

[lightsout]

1 minute ago, Proudiddy said:

Great thread.  You did a much better job breaking it down than I would and the reasons why it caused us problems, but it was clear that it was run fits and gap control dhe to the alignments.  There was a play early where they broke off a long run where right before the snap, I noticed we ran 3 down linemen, and Reddick was aligned to the outside of the tackle and leaned in at an angle...  and right before they snapped it, I felt like it left a lot of real estate in the middle...  the first 3 weeks of the season we were used to bullying the opponent into passing and pinning our ears back when they did.  We also did that in those games because guys were making incredible plays against the run in 1 on 1 situations and attacking downhill.  Today, we missed a ton of tackles, took some bad angles, and just looked sloppy.  We weren't able to force them into passing like we did the teams in weeks 1-3, and it was because we didn't play the run.

 

Yeah we were way more multiple in other games too. That's what shocked me, we didn't come out of the odd front. We tried to mask it by rolling under with a 7-3-nose shade to the strength with the backside being head up on guard or even 2i and the backer at a 5. But then weren't getting the linebackers doing their jobs and cutting under blocks rather than fighting across and making the play. And of course they'd just run belly weak off of a motion.

 

Just a complete poo show across the board.

[hepcat]

So this is why NFL coordinators call the Panthers defense a college defense?

[Monrowed]

28 minutes ago, lightsout said:

Let me just break down why Zeke ate us alive. It's not because we're bad. It's because our game plan was awful. We expected a throwing attack, they didn't give it to us much.

We actually ran a lot of 5 man fronts, but they were shell fronts. We lined up with a nose and two guys lined up at 3tech, with our outside backers walked up on the line. They're boxing on the edge, but that means they're not fighting for inside control and they're not going to be able to squeeze the end man on the line down inside to take away the b/c gap. So you essentially put 3 on 3 inside, hat on a hat. And since they ran so much power and belly, they would just down block and pull the backside guard. This left us utterly out of position and with no bodies to get to the lane. It's easy blocking for Dallas.

 

Same situation with zone schemes. Add in missed tackles/bad decisions by linebackers on angles and gaps to hit, we're looking at roughly 250 yards rushing and a one score game.

 

Despite our OL, despite the refs, despite empty possessions and a turnover, we were within a score and 2 point conversion...if only we had ran more 4 man fronts and not made the run game so easily available.

Thank you for your knowledge of what seemed to be the issue.

[lightsout]

Just now, hepcat said:

So this is why NFL coordinators call the Panthers defense a college defense?

 

Partly yeah (the coverages were more the reference because of how we could disguise and confuse by rolling guys down and bailing them out). In college and high school, this works very well. Against professional teams that stick to their blocking rules and are good at communicating, it's elementary.

[hepcat]

9 minutes ago, lightsout said:

 

Partly yeah (the coverages were more the reference because of how we could disguise and confuse by rolling guys down and bailing them out). In college and high school, this works very well. Against professional teams that stick to their blocking rules and are good at communicating, it's elementary.

Well that’s not good for Phil Snow going forward I guess 

[outlaw4]

I won't pretend to understand all the nuances of our run defense today. I'm just going to say that for all the resources we invested on the D and the extra time to prepare for this game, today was a completely unacceptable performance all round. 

[hepcat]

I went back and looked at the stats on the run defense, man is it bad. The Panthers run defense got absolutely exposed in this game. They need to make some adjustments in game when their odd man fronts start getting beat. Was not having Gross-Matos that big of a loss? 

[TrevorLaurenceTime22]

Thread should be why odd fronts don't stop the run with Boger as the ref

[TrevorLaurenceTime22]

2 minutes ago, hepcat said:

I went back and looked at the stats on the run defense, man is it bad. The Panthers run defense got absolutely exposed in this game. They need to make some adjustments in game when their odd man fronts start getting beat. Was not having Gross-Matos that big of a loss? 

I clipped some very very egregious holds on every single one of there long runs I'll post them in a bit.