Why odd fronts don't work vs the run

[lightsout]

Let me just break down why Zeke ate us alive. It's not because we're bad. It's because our game plan was awful. We expected a throwing attack, they didn't give it to us much.

We actually ran a lot of 5 man fronts, but they were shell fronts. We lined up with a nose and two guys lined up at 3tech, with our outside backers walked up on the line. They're boxing on the edge, but that means they're not fighting for inside control and they're not going to be able to squeeze the end man on the line down inside to take away the b/c gap. So you essentially put 3 on 3 inside, hat on a hat. And since they ran so much power and belly, they would just down block and pull the backside guard. This left us utterly out of position and with no bodies to get to the lane. It's easy blocking for Dallas.

 

Same situation with zone schemes. Add in missed tackles/bad decisions by linebackers on angles and gaps to hit, we're looking at roughly 250 yards rushing and a one score game.

 

Despite our OL, despite the refs, despite empty possessions and a turnover, we were within a score and 2 point conversion...if only we had ran more 4 man fronts and not made the run game so easily available.

[Zod]

Good thread 

 

[PanthersGOATFan336]

This

[LinvilleGorge]

Tell that to all those dominant Steelers defenses over the years.

[TheoJay10]

Exactly. Odd fronts do not produce good gap management. Everyone is stacked on the line and almost smothered as the OL moves. They need to review the tape and use traditional 4-3 fronts in certain situations. Snow will learn but the lack of sacks hurt us terribly. 

[Mr. Scot]

Good post

[lightsout]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

Tell that to all those dominant Steelers defenses over the years.

 

Those defenses operated differently than we did today. Snow LOVES sending pressure. We saw it that last series. We stacked up the line, put our safety in the box, and blitzed at least one linebacker. Every time. Why did it fail? Because you need odd fronts to have two things. A dominant nose that is immovable and requires double and triple teams and linebackers that can read and react quickly. Your ends have to be great two gap defenders. I love our DL, but that isn't what they do. They attack hard and squeeze poo down. They don't jam up the blocker and shed to either side effectively to dominant both gaps.

 

[Floppin]

I think in a lot of ways we approached this game on defense from the "Don't fix what's not broken" mentality. We have had success with odd fronts and mug sets so far so we basically decided to roll with it and force Dallas to gameplan against it. Well, turns out they did, and in hindsight I'm not sure this was the best approach, but I understand it to a degree. 

I have faith that we'll adjust. 

[Carolina Cajun]

this is a game we really could have used Gross-matos, Him and Fox as DE, with Jones and Brown in middle give us a versatile 4 man front, not as dominant in pass rush, but not pass rush slouches either, so it would give us more versatility.

[KSpan]

I feel like YGM would have been an asset today and that him being out may have hampered their ability to move to a different look. Hell, one of those short yardage/goal line situations it look like there were only 3 down lineman for Carolina. It was just a strange approach overall.

[lightsout]

Just now, Floppin said:

I think in a lot of ways we approached this game on defense from the "Don't fix what's not broken" mentality. We have had success with odd fronts and mug sets so far so we basically decided to roll with it and force Dallas to gameplan against it. Well, turns out they did, and in hindsight I'm not sure this was the best approach, but I understand it to a degree. 

I have faith that we'll adjust. 

 

Teachable moment. Let's see how Snow adjusts moving forward. I fully expected to see more 4 and 5 man lines to combat the two TE sets, but instead we got rolled down under fronts. Not a bad idea, but not the personnel to do it well.

[Saca312]

Panthers played to defend the pass. Most notable was the small boxes we had. We figured the Cowboys would eat the secondary alive without Burris and Horn, and it showed Snow was overcompensating for it.

Decent plan, if that didn't mean the Cowboys would eat us up on the ground like crazy.

Live and learn. Gotta shore up our integrity at the line and show more doninance there. That was a surprise that I didn't expect nor liked seeing.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Saca312

[Shaqil915]

I think Snow might have felt a little pressure to help out the secondary thats missing Horn/Burris with a better pass rush. Also, It feels like YGM was making 1-2 plays a game behind the line of scrimmage in the run D. Def missed him as well. 

[LinvilleGorge]

7 minutes ago, lightsout said:

 

Those defenses operated differently than we did today. Snow LOVES sending pressure. We saw it that last series. We stacked up the line, put our safety in the box, and blitzed at least one linebacker. Every time. Why did it fail? Because you need odd fronts to have two things. A dominant nose that is immovable and requires double and triple teams and linebackers that can read and react quickly. Your ends have to be great two gap defenders. I love our DL, but that isn't what they do. They attack hard and squeeze poo down. They don't jam up the blocker and shed to either side effectively to dominant both gaps.

 

You were simply dogging on odd fronts and it wasn't accurate. If you're saying we don't have the personnel to duplicate what all those dominant Steelers' defenses of old did I would agree with that. It's not a condemnation of the scheme itself as a whole. We just don't have the right personnel to implement it against an OL like the Cowboys and a RB like Zeke. That's a lot different than simply making a blanket statement like odd fronts just suck overall against the run.