Really good article on Sam Darnold. Worth a click.

[CRA]

19 minutes ago, User Name said:

Me either, Jake had nowhere near the arm talent size or mobility. Jake thought he could make all the throws, Sam can make them. Sam is much closer to Rodgers or Alen from that aspect, just needs to tighten up the muscle between the ears.

The Jake comparison is largely decision making and simply doing stupid things.  

better arm or not....Sam's play and talent doesn't put him in the next tier where the Cam Newton's are (who also did dumb things with the ball).  So Jake is probably as good of a Carolina comp as their gets.  What's between the ears is what essentially defines every NFL QB. 

Jake brought a steady mix of good and bad.   But when he lost his moxy.....the bad made winning with him too hard.   That has been Sam to date.  Steady mix of good and bad.   

[User Name]

6 minutes ago, CRA said:

The Jake comparison is largely decision making and simply doing stupid things.  

better arm or not....Sam's play and talent doesn't put him in the next tier where the Cam Newton's are (who also did dumb things with the ball).  So Jake is probably as good of a Carolina comp as their gets.  What's between the ears is what essentially defines every NFL QB. 

Jake brought a steady mix of good and bad.   But what he lost his moxy.....the bad made winning with him too hard.   That has been Sam to date.  Good and bad.  Minus the moxy. 

No argument from me, and pleasantly we'll get to see. Sans rock solid kicker, and roided up (allegedly) line I see semelaritys between 03 and this team.

[Jon Snow]

13 minutes ago, CRA said:

The Jake comparison is largely decision making and simply doing stupid things with the ball. 

better arm or not.  What's between the ears is what essentially defines every NFL QB. 

Delhomme was a better decision maker than he was given credit for. He also liked to gamble beyond his ability.  That comes with the territory.  

The best decision making qb we ever had was Beurlin. I always thought he was a good qb but he couldn't carry the team.  Not a lot can honestly. 

It's easier to find the Beurlins than the Newtons unless your are constantly drafting in the top 3.  If you want to be a perennial contender to better find your signal caller wherever you can and have a team around that can help him win and not expect him to carry the team. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Jon Snow

[mav1234]

6 minutes ago, CRA said:

The Jake comparison is largely decision making and simply doing stupid things.  

better arm or not....Sam's play and talent doesn't put him in the next tier where the Cam Newton's are (who also did dumb things with the ball).  So Jake is probably as good of a Carolina comp as their gets.  What's between the ears is what essentially defines every NFL QB. 

Jake brought a steady mix of good and bad.   But when he lost his moxy.....the bad made winning with him too hard.   That has been Sam to date.  Steady mix of good and bad.   

Darnold is a tier below Cam for certain in athletic ability and arm strength,  but he's also tiers above Delhomme... 

As to the stupid decisions, through 2 games, Darnold has an *extremely* low percentage of INTs thrown per pass. I don't think we can assume he'll play as poorly as he did with the Jets there. 

[CRA]

Just now, User Name said:

No argument from me, and pleasantly we'll get to see. Sans rock solid kicker, and roided up (allegedly) line I see semelaritys between 03 and this team.

yeah, the 2003 season never happens without a clutch kicker.  That 2003 SuperBowl season doesn't even make the postseason with the caliber kickers we have had around of late. 

[1usctrojan]

17 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

I don't think we have a QB in our history that is a good comparison to Darnold, assuming he continues to improve...  Frankly, his natural gifts put him closer to Cam than Delhomme in terms of raw ability, but he's obviously nothing close to Cam either.  It is just that Delhomme wasn't Delhomme because of arm talent or athleticism.  Darnold has a rare combination there, although not once in a generation or anything of that sort like Cam was.

I think Darnold's leadership ability is heavily underrated by us fans, based on how many times he's been made a captain already in his short career, so we'll see if we get more hints of that as time goes on.  That's some of the missing piece of what kind of player he will be for us.

I just want to add this part….Sam is much different with his teammates than he is in front of the media.  He’s not comfortable with attention focused on him, he’s the ultimate team player.  He has a great, quiet sense of humor - sarcasm, and  dry wit, remaining down to earth.  Highly competitive and his teammates know it.

This is gathered from his USC days, which we saw and personally heard out of the mouths of his teammates, same things read from his Jets teammates.

Low key or not, he has a remarkably great number of close and loyal friends he’s had for years.  How many of us can say that?

Edited September 22, 2021 by 1usctrojan

[CRA]

1 minute ago, Jon Snow said:

Delhomme was a better decision maker than he was given credit for. He also liked to gamble beyond his ability.  That comes with the territory.  

The best decision making qb we ever had was Beurlin. I always thought he was a good qb but he couldn't carry the team.  Not a lot can honestly. 

It's easier to find the Beurlins then the Newtons unless your are constantly drafting in the top 3.  If you want to be a perennial contender to better find your signal caller wherever you can and have a team around that can help him win and not expect him to carry the team. 

the perennial contenders in the present era have the QBs that can put it on his back every Sunday if need be. 

[CRA]

6 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Darnold is a tier below Cam for certain in athletic ability and arm strength,  but he's also tiers above Delhomme... 

As to the stupid decisions, through 2 games, Darnold has an *extremely* low percentage of INTs thrown per pass. I don't think we can assume he'll play as poorly as he did with the Jets there. 

Sam Darnold's ability to turn the ball over has been insanely consistent from college to present day.   

and he has a completely dumb turnover in each game thus far in Carolina despite not being asked to shoulder that much. 

and I have always maintained, he can not change one bit.....and he will win more games and he will have better stats here than at any time in NY.   I think he can be the exact same dude he was in NY....and we get to as high as 9 wins being that same dude.   I just think there is a weird line about that meaning he is getting better or not.  The team around him is so much better.  So he is going to have more success here vs there...even if he were to never change. 

 

[SBBlue]

53 minutes ago, CRA said:

Sam Darnold's ability to turn the ball over has been insanely consistent from college to present day.   

and he has a completely dumb turnover in each game thus far in Carolina despite not being asked to shoulder that much. 

and I have always maintained, he can not change one bit.....and he will win more games and he will have better stats here than at any time in NY.   I think he can be the exact same dude he was in NY....and we get to as high as 9 wins being that same dude.   I just think there is a weird line about that meaning he is getting better or not.  The team around him is so much better.  So he is going to have more success here vs there...even if he were to never change. 

 

Maybe.  

You did NOT predict that after 2 games Sam's int% would be lower than Mahommes, Brady, Prescott, Stafford, Rodgers, and Herbert
OR
that he would have a higher completion percentage than Burrow, Rodgers, Brady, Tannehill, and Big Ben
OR  
that he would have more yards than Josh Allen, Tannehill, Mayfield, Big Ben, Burrow, or Aaron Rodgers.  

You may be right in the end.  The data so far does NOT support your conclusion.    The data  at this point is signaling a pretty good QB, top 13ish.

Sam traditionally  plays better later in the year (thus the 2 jets wins against playoff teams at the end of t last year) AND he's learning the offense.  Teddy had 2 years in the offense before he played for us.  Sam has had 5 months.

Its early yet.  We'll see.  

Edited September 22, 2021 by SBBlue

[Jon Snow]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

the perennial contenders in the present era have the QBs that can put it on his back every Sunday if need be. 

How many of those would you say there are in the league?

[CRA]

16 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

Maybe.  

You did NOT predict that after 2 games Sam's int% would be lower than Mahommes, Brady, Prescott, Stafford, Rodgers, and Herbert
OR
that he would have a higher completion percentage than Burrow, Rodgers, Brady, Tannehill, and Big Ben
OR  
that he would have more yards than Josh Allen, Tannehill, Mayfield, Big Ben, Burrow, or Aaron Rodgers.  

You may be right in the end.  The data so far does NOT support your conclusion.    The data  at this point is signaling a pretty good QB, top 13ish.

Sam traditionally  plays better later in the year (thus the 2 jets wins against playoff teams at the end of t last year) AND he's learning the offense.  Teddy had 2 years in the offense before he played for us.  Sam has had 5 months.

Its early yet.  We'll see.  

what conclusion did I make?  that the data doesn't support?   From college to present day.....he consistently turns the ball over.  It's the Sam problem.   We have seen it in both games here.  It's Sam being Sam.  And if you remember in preseason, the refs probably bailed him out of a fumble there too.   He just has those moments.  Always has.   And I think it is a problem that we are seeing it....dismissed and masked because we played bad teams. 

and your data would be signaling Teddy Bridgewater is a top 5 QB.  I don't think if you watched football this year though, your eyes would believe that though. 

 

[SBBlue]

10 minutes ago, CRA said:

what conclusion did I make?  that the data doesn't support?   From college to present day.....he consistently turns the ball over.  It's the Sam problem.   We have seen it in both games here.  It's Sam being Sam.  And if you remember in preseason, the refs probably bailed him out of a fumble there too.   He just has those moments.  Always has.   And I think it is a problem that we are seeing it....dismissed and masked because we played bad teams. 

and your data would be signaling Teddy Bridgewater is a top 5 QB.  I don't think if you watched football this year though, your eyes would believe that though. 

 

Every QB turns the ball over.  Seriously?  That's what you're going with.    Sam has 1.4 int% and you say that supports your conclusion.  Whatever.

Edited September 22, 2021 by SBBlue

[SBBlue]

11 minutes ago, CRA said:

and your data would be signaling Teddy Bridgewater is a top 5 QB.  I don't think if you watched football this year though, your eyes would believe that though. 

Teddy is playing very well right now.  Looks like he's better than last year for sure.  The move lit a fire under his ass.  Tyrod Taylor was looking good too.  

The wheels may come off at one point of Sam, Teddy, Murray, or Hurts like they did for  Taylor, Winston and Tannehill.  Sometimes they regress too the mean.  Sometimes they don't  We'll see.

This notion that players are static and will always be what they have always been is just not supported by the data or our experience.

If you think Sam's current play supports the notion that he is a turnover-prone QB, you must not watch much football, because then they nearly all are, including the greats.  .5 ints a game is very good.

 

[mav1234]

Anyone that thinks from his first two games he looks exactly like he did on average on the Jets is either not watching him on the Panthers, or didn't watch him on the Jets.

Yes, the supporting cast is immeasurably better.  But he is making smarter, faster decisions than most of the plays I saw while he was at NY.