New Base Defense -- Odd Fronts**

[Jon Snow]

24 minutes ago, t96 said:

We ran a 3-4 in Rivera's last year, and it was mostly a disaster.

That's because he only knows about 2 styles of defense, the 4-3 and that 3-4 thing he keeps hearing about. 

He can build you a good 4-3 style defense but it's not versatile enough to confuse anyone.  It relies solely on having better one on one match-ups.  He mimicked the 85 Bears defense and that is all he knows.

[CanadianCat]

I like that Snow seems like the guy that will stay with Rhule despite his success. 

Brady seems like the guy that will jump at first opportunity. 

[Stumpy]

9 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

That's because he only knows about 2 styles of defense, the 4-3 and that 3-4 thing he keeps hearing about. 

He can build you a good 4-3 style defense but it's not versatile enough to confuse anyone.  It relies solely on having better one on one match-ups.  He mimicked the 85 Bears defense and that is all he knows.

Didn't Rivera run a 3-4 with SD when they had a top 5 defense?

[Jon Snow]

Just now, Stumpy said:

Didn't Rivera run a 3-4 with SD when they had a top 5 defense?

He did with the talent he inherited.  He admitted soon after his hire here that he preferred a 4-3. Why? No clue. 

[SetfreexX]

41 minutes ago, t96 said:

We ran a 3-4 in Rivera's last year, and it was mostly a disaster.

Most times the first year of a transition is tough, it also hurts when you have a BAD defensive coordinator. If memory serves Eric Washington at the time. 

At the time the personnel was interesting:

3-4 

DE - Short and McCoy, traditional 3t DT's seemed to make sense as 3-4 DE's (Size with relative athleticism for the position requirement) -- Short gets hurt EARLY

DT - Dontari Poe -- fell off a cliff as he was a true 3-4 NT, and had played it for KC, backed up by Butler, who is more a 3t than a NT, but was 6'4'' / 325

OLB - Bruce Irvin / Mario Addison / Rookie Burns & Miller -- Burns had the wrist and was a ST's gunner and still managed 7.5 sacks, I think Mario was around 9, and Irvin around 7

ILB - Kuechly and Thompson, since the DL couldn't eat up space we saw Luke look human for the first time in our lives, and he eventually retired. 

_______________________________________

More than ANYTHING under Rivera we RELIED on veterans too much, and we got OLD, and fast, there were no succession plans in place, so once we were old and slow like we were in key spots on defense it showed.  

[SetfreexX]

20 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

That's because he only knows about 2 styles of defense, the 4-3 and that 3-4 thing he keeps hearing about. 

He can build you a good 4-3 style defense but it's not versatile enough to confuse anyone.  It relies solely on having better one on one match-ups.  He mimicked the 85 Bears defense and that is all he knows.

He coached a 3-4 for the San Diego Chargers and they were one of the best in the league at the time, then he went to CHI and coached a 4-3, also another year of high end production. 

The issue was in our 3-4 was injuries / age / and talent drop off showed it's ugly head. 

We had no young talent on defense, and it never saw the field, we also relied on a heavy zone scheme, that veterans picked apart because after Bradberry, and rookie Donte' we didn't have any corners, I think Mike Adams was still around at Safety as well and he was like 37 ish. 

Just an old slow team in key spots man.

[SetfreexX]

14 minutes ago, CanadianCat said:

I like that Snow seems like the guy that will stay with Rhule despite his success. 

Brady seems like the guy that will jump at first opportunity. 

He's young why wouldn't he, he obviously has aspirations, and the trend in the NFL is YOUNG offensive minded prospects. 

Is he ready...no I don't think so, I'd say 2-3 years including the current. 

[SetfreexX]

11 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

He did with the talent he inherited.  He admitted soon after his hire here that he preferred a 4-3. Why? No clue. 

There's nothing wrong with a 4-3 defense, the issue is it's HARDER to find fits for it based off the players colleges provide. 

Look back at 2013, we had dominant EDGE rush with Hardy and Johnson and a top defense. Johnson eventually got old / injured; and we never replaced Hardy as the young up and comer (Kony Ealy / Jared Allen). 

Part of the reason for the change was to have better need / draft fit since there are more talented 3-4 EDGE guys versus traditional 4-3 DEs. 

[Jon Snow]

2 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

He coached a 3-4 for the San Diego Chargers and they were one of the best in the league at the time, then he went to CHI and coached a 4-3, also another year of high end production. 

The issue was in our 3-4 was injuries / age / and talent drop off showed it's ugly head. 

We had no young talent on defense, and it never saw the field, we also relied on a heavy zone scheme, that veterans picked apart because after Bradberry, and rookie Donte' we didn't have any corners, I think Mike Adams was still around at Safety as well and he was like 37 ish. 

Just an old slow team in key spots man.

That's what he relied on. He just couldn't work with or develop rookies. If he got a great player he rode them into the ground without care or consideration for the player longevity or developing someone behind them to take over when he finally broke them.

Good riddance. 

[pantherclaw]

22 minutes ago, Stumpy said:

Didn't Rivera run a 3-4 with SD when they had a top 5 defense?

Yes he did. Don't confuse him. It'll drive him to drink more!

[SetfreexX]

2 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

That's what he relied on. He just couldn't work with or develop rookies. If he got a great player he rode them into the ground without care or consideration for the player longevity or developing someone behind them to take over when he finally broke them.

Good riddance. 

It was an antiquated way of thinking for sure, the best teams have their core guys, but the teams with a core AND DEPTH always got he furthest. 

That's why I am happy to see the emphasis placed on talent at the 2nd and 3rd string positions. I wasn't happy with the Horn pick / Darnold trade. 

HOWEVER I'm not stupid either, I could see what they were attempting to do -- BUILD A FULL TEAM. See SF, and if the current QB isn't it, then we can always trade up IF we have a FULL TEAM in place. 

To this I can tip my hat as it is also a solid plan, and so far it's paying dividends. 

[Jon Snow]

2 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

There's nothing wrong with a 4-3 defense, the issue is it's HARDER to find fits for it based off the players colleges provide. 

Look back at 2013, we had dominant EDGE rush with Hardy and Johnson and a top defense. Johnson eventually got old / injured; and we never replaced Hardy as the young up and comer (Kony Ealy / Jared Allen). 

Part of the reason for the change was to have better need / draft fit since there are more talented 3-4 EDGE guys versus traditional 4-3 DEs. 

I didn't say anything was wrong with it, just that's really all he wanted to do. It wasn't about versatility or being able to counter different schemes in the conference.  It was about sticking to his veterans he managed to collect and force his will on the rest of the league.  It worked briefly until his defense got old and broken. 

The getting old is on him and dipsh*t for not being able to build a defense that can adapt to its players.

You will never be able to build just one type of defense in today's league because the players for that are too limited.  Versatility is the new normal and it took a relic of a defensive coordinator to show the league that.

[chbright]

1 minute ago, Jon Snow said:

That's what he relied on. He just couldn't work with or develop rookies. If he got a great player he rode them into the ground without care or consideration for the player longevity or developing someone behind them to take over when he finally broke them.

Good riddance. 

To be fair, we were paper thin up front that year we tried to switch to a 3-4. zero depth up front and it showed once short went down, then poe and it was game over we had 0 replacements worth a damn..add to that we had a terrible pair of MLB for a 3-4. Sorry but Luke and Shaq can't both play in the middle of a 3-4. Both can't be the clean chase and tackle guy. That's what both really excelled at and instead Ron turned a generational MLB in Luke into a block eater. Was fuging sad and stupid.

[panthers55]

These are not odd fronts, this is what teams like Baltimore and Pittsburgh have done for years. They put different guys on the line showing blitz and then rush from different angles or overload one side after faking the blitz from the other. This isn't unique but copying other successful blitzing teams. He is getting the most out of his guys and he is picking good times to get pressure but this defense isn't that different from many teams. It is just different from we have run before and very different from last year's prevent defense.