New Base Defense -- Odd Fronts**

[Jon Snow]

Just now, chbright said:

To be fair, we were paper thin up front that year we tried to switch to a 3-4. zero depth up front and it showed once short went down, then poe and it was game over we had 0 replacements worth a damn..add to that we had a terrible pair of MLB for a 3-4. Sorry but Luke and Shaq can't both play in the middle of a 3-4. Both can't be the clean chase and tackle guy. That's what both really excelled at and instead Ron turned a generational MLB in Luke into a block eater. Was fuging sad and stupid.

They were paper thin because dipsh*t couldn't build a complete team to save his life.  It takes time to build a team when you can only hit on 1st round picks in the top 10.  That's why it took 10 years to get back to the nfcc game. 

[Jackie Lee]

The snap counts are crazy, Jermaine Carter only played 30% of the snaps. Pretty sure some plays Shaq was basically the only IOL on the field 

[chbright]

4 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

They were paper thin because dipsh*t couldn't build a complete team to save his life.  It takes time to build a team when you can only hit on 1st round picks in the top 10.  That's why it took 10 years to get back to the nfcc game. 

Eh it was more than just Hurney that failed to get the DL depth there. They lost it over nipple shorts and Hurney to be fair. The odd front was a last ditch effort by Ron and Hurney to try to save there their jobs. And we all know how well that went. The worst part is how it ended Luke as a player. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

The past two years we have stressed athletism and versatility across the board.  We now have players all over the field that can put their hand in the dirt or stand up.   You can game plan but it doesn't mean you'll figure this defense out.

Snow is like the conductor of an orchestra.  

Shame Luke wasn't here to experience Snow.  Could you imagine him running this defense.

 

[Jon Snow]

14 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

The past two years we have stressed athletism and versatility across the board.  We now have players all over the field that can put their hand in the dirt or stand up.   You can game plan but it doesn't mean you'll figure this defense out.

Snow is like the conductor of an orchestra.  

Shame Luke wasn't here to experience Snow.  Could you imagine him running this defense.

 

Actually Luke could have stayed here and ran it but he chose to retire.  

He probably heard Snow say "this is what we are going to do on defense,  we are going to have to run some college and maybe even some high school looks" and Luke was like, "Wait...what?! Are you nuts?! That's crazy!! That will never work. I'm out of here"

Something like that.

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Jon Snow

[CanadianCat]

1 hour ago, SetfreexX said:

He's young why wouldn't he, he obviously has aspirations, and the trend in the NFL is YOUNG offensive minded prospects. 

Is he ready...no I don't think so, I'd say 2-3 years including the current. 

Yeah, Im not saying I would blame him - I would do the same thing, but it feels inevitable that he will go.

While with Snow it 'feels' like we can settle into him being here long term. 

[TheMostInterestingMan]

57 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

The past two years we have stressed athletism and versatility across the board.  We now have players all over the field that can put their hand in the dirt or stand up.   You can game plan but it doesn't mean you'll figure this defense out.

Snow is like the conductor of an orchestra.  

Shame Luke wasn't here to experience Snow.  Could you imagine him running this defense.

 

I was about to post this! Luke was also super versatile. He could do everything you asked him to do. Could cover some WRs. But imagine having all that in the middle with his ability to make reads on the field and direct and make adjustments pre snap. This defense is already looking very good. Really wish Luke could be in the middle of it. 

[mav1234]

57 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Actually Luke could have stayed here and ran it but he chose to retire.  

He probably heard Snow say "this is what we are going to do on defense,  we are going to have to run some college and maybe even some high school looks" and Luke was like, "Wait...what?! Are you nuts?! That's crazy!! That will never work. I'm out of here"

Something like that.

 

I think they were up front with Luke this was a longer term rebuild and he decided to retire given the concussions etc.  I kinda doubt he heard the scheme ideas and bailed... I think he wanted to either win or keep his health intact. 

Concussions are serious and every year we hear about more former NFL players dying young.  If you're totally set financially, why risk it?

[Jon Snow]

2 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

I think they were up front with Luke this was a longer term rebuild and he decided to retire given the concussions etc.  I kinda doubt he heard the scheme ideas and bailed... I think he wanted to either win or keep his health intact. 

Concussions are serious and every year we hear about more former NFL players dying young.  If you're totally set financially, why risk it?

I know, just Jimmy rustling on a rainy day in the mtns.

[Panthers Rhule]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

These are not odd fronts, this is what teams like Baltimore and Pittsburgh have done for years. They put different guys on the line showing blitz and then rush from different angles or overload one side after faking the blitz from the other. This isn't unique but copying other successful blitzing teams. He is getting the most out of his guys and he is picking good times to get pressure but this defense isn't that different from many teams. It is just different from we have run before and very different from last year's prevent defense.

While I agree with the basis of your assessments about different angles and overloads not being new, I would say that the personal they are using and the versatility they are displaying is new. They are hiding the play extremely well and can morph from their fronts into almost anything. They are able to read the offense and and call their exact plays from the field. They are making it very hard for the QBs to make pre snap adjustments. The OLs don't know who there assignments should be and the QB doesn't know if it's a run D or a pass D because it's both. When we see multiple defenders running past the OL untouched it means that the OL doesn't know what's coming. That's because they haven't see it before. The Saints OL is very experienced and considered to be top notch and they often looked lost out there. I think it's also giving the RBs problems as they can't read which hole to hit and they are not hitting lanes very hard so far and are therefore getting stuffed even by DBs. Even strong RBs can get flattened if they are attacking flat footed which is what I've seen these last 2 games. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Panthers Rhule

[panthers55]

2 minutes ago, Panthers Rhule said:

While I agree with the basis of your assessments about different angles and overloads not being new, I would say that the personal they are using and the versatility they are displaying is new. They are hiding the play extremely well and can morph from their fronts into almost anything. They are able to read the offense and and call their exact plays from the field. They are making it very hard for the QBs to make pre snap adjustments. The OLs don't know who there assignments should be and the QB doesn't know if it's a run D or a pass D because it's both. When we see multiple defenders running past the OL untouched it means that the OL doesn't know what's coming. That's because they haven't see it before. The Saints OL is very experienced and considered to be top notch and they often looked lost out there. I think it's also giving the RBs problems as they can't read which hole to hit and they are not hitting lanes very hard so far and are therefore getting stuffed even by DBs. Even strong RBs can get flattened if they are attacking flat footed which is what I've seen these last 2 games. 

Many of the heavy blitzing teams are in the AFC not NFC. So it is true that the Saints wouldn't have seen that much. There was a reason that we played preseason games against both the Ravens and Pittsburgh.  But if you watch those teams you would see we are doing the same thing. Jim Johnson used to do it all the time using a 4-3 with Philadelphia.  It isn't that unique but it is effective. It takes fast players who can get off the line and into coverage quickly backpedaling while watching their man. It seems to work better using man coverage because you are at the line with the offensive player and can focus on the player and move with him instead of defending a zone but we did it both ways.

[SetfreexX]

3 hours ago, panthers55 said:

These are not odd fronts, this is what teams like Baltimore and Pittsburgh have done for years. They put different guys on the line showing blitz and then rush from different angles or overload one side after faking the blitz from the other. This isn't unique but copying other successful blitzing teams. He is getting the most out of his guys and he is picking good times to get pressure but this defense isn't that different from many teams. It is just different from we have run before and very different from last year's prevent defense.

3 down in a 3 point stance is an Odd front.

4 down is an even front. 

3 is an odd number.

4 is an even number. 

So yes, odd fronts.

 

[panthers55]

27 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

3 down in a 3 point stance is an Odd front.

4 down is an even front. 

3 is an odd number.

4 is an even number. 

So yes, odd fronts.

 

 An odd front is about how they are attacking the offensive line through the gaps which are numbered with odd numbers or square up to the player which are numbered evenly. So odd fronts are usually one gap penetrating  schemes. It has nothing to do with whether they use a 3 or 4 point stance or how many people are rushing.

 

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2014/3/2/5462738/mike-pettines-2013-base-defense-more-base-fronts

[rmoneyg35]

If Reddick keeps this up then we are going to have to give him a big raise because he’s on pace to have over 15 sacks. I was wondering how reddick would do this year, he had 5 sacks in one game so I figured he might not be as good as he was last year. So far he has been better.