So the Panthers are kinda up shit creek with this Peppers contract situation

[Paintballr]

Isn't Pep getting the biggest amount he has ever gotten in a year this year? Do you guys really see him avg. that much again every year?

[o803oVaDeR]

I dont see us loosing either player. I also see us signing a few good DT's and DE's just we did last season on the Oline. We will not be signing any Franchise type players, but Fox is good at finding cheaper players that fit in our system well. I also look for Lucas to reconstruct his contract, and Drafting a DB in round 2 of the draft. I dont think Marshall is the player most of us thought he would be. But if we are unable to fill the DL holes with free agents the DL is a little more in need of help than the DBs. After all a good DL makes better DBs. But who knows I trust the staff to get it done. They have proven they are cappable.

[rubberpantz]

And for the record, teams like the Patriots and Eagles who have multiple consecutive winning seasons make these type of "dumbest thing a franshise could do" moves all the time. Sometimes a team has to look further ahead than just the next season.

might be true... i just can't think off the top of my head who the Patriots or Iggles have gotten rid of recently that was such an integral part of their team like JP is to the Panthers.

[rubberpantz]

After all a good DL makes better DBs. But who knows I trust the staff to get it done.

never more true than our SB season... i mean starting corners were Terry Cousin and Reggie Howard...?

i miss a dominant d-line :frown2:

[mountainpantherfan]

might be true... i just can't think off the top of my head who the Patriots or Iggles have gotten rid of recently that was such an integral part of their team like JP is to the Panthers.

Maybe not one player, but they have allowed many Pro-Bowl or Pro-Bowl type talent leave.

Like I've said, it's not like I want Peppers or Gross to leave but to just dismiss the notion as just another comment from a "Peppers Hater" as some have said in the past just isn't fair. I don't think any fan has the inside information that would allow us to say for certain that keeping either player instead of other options is the best option.

[rubberpantz]

Maybe not one player, but they have allowed many Pro-Bowl or Pro-Bowl type talent leave.

Like I've said, it's not like I want Peppers or Gross to leave but to just dismiss the notion as just another comment from a "Peppers Hater" as some have said in the past just isn't fair. I don't think any fan has the inside information that would allow us to say for certain that keeping either player instead of other options is the best option.

with our commitment to guys that we feel are, "core"... i dont think either of them go. giving them new contracts i think will lessen their burden on our salary cap as it currently stands and will hopefully free up enough money to get some quality help on the d-line.

now if these guys would prefer to play somewhere else, i dont think there's much we can do to persuade them to stay and throwing more money at someone that doesn't want to be here in the first place is a bad idea.

[mountainpantherfan]

with our commitment to guys that we feel are, "core"... i dont think either of them go. giving them new contracts i think will lessen their burden on our salary cap as it currently stands and will hopefully free up enough money to get some quality help on the d-line.

now if these guys would prefer to play somewhere else, i dont think there's much we can do to persuade them to stay and throwing more money at someone that doesn't want to be here in the first place is a bad idea.

To be honest, this is what I think as well. The cap numbers should allow us to sign any and all of the FA on the team we want and probably still leave some room for some additions.

Now the desire for of the players to stay in Carolina is a big variable. But I would also say that future contracts can also play a role in this. Just because the cap space would be there this year would Gross and Peppers new contracts hurt the team in the future to re-sign guys like Davis and Williams? Thats the information that you can't find anywhere, except maybe Hurney's private computer.

[ItsNotGonnaBeAlright]

Loose Peppers and you take away any and all pressure that the D could put on opposing quaterbacks. Pep is such a threat and an attention draw that it opens up doors for others to get in and get the sack. Without the threat of a sack from all sides, no defense will look dominant. So much that a defense does depends on getting pressure off the line. And so much of the pressure this team brings is built around what Peppers can do.

Unless you want 2009 to be a rebuilding period, you don't loose Peppers.

[BlindSite]

So if the Panthers do sign Peppers for 11 million where does that leave getting more help on the d-line? I think not signing Peppers could be the biggest mistake in Panthers history. But signing him and not being able to get anymore help will only result what we saw back in 06 when the team brought back 20 of 22 starters.

For every person who bashes anyone who even mentions Peppers not coming back next season, please tell me how you think the team is going to be able to improve. I want Peppers and Gross to stay in Carolina but when a team isn't trying to improve from one season to another the result is never good.

Right now the biggest struggle this team has on the defensive line is a defensive tackle rotation to be more effective. The loss of Ma'ake proved that and as the season's worn on with a few injuries to back ups we've lost a lot of production from that area.

Signing Peppers won't make us worse off, that's what people don't realise. Yes he'll require a big contract, yes he'll probably be the highest paid defensive player ever, BUT. He'll give Hurney more space to work with. We draft a DT in the 2nd round, we look for some valuable FA's at DT ala Lewis a few years ago and the Dline becomes our biggest strength again.

We cannot get better production from the defensive line without Peppers unless we get two new starting calibre defensive ends and a defensive tackle. Suggs isn't that good and is a liability in the running game. Its easy to say X guy had these numbers and will be cheaper than Pep. Its all pointless. We won't find another top 5 DE.

sooo... my question for the people that think we should let Peppers go....

do you think it's wise to let one of the best players in the NFL leave the team w/out us receiving any compensation?

losing Pep would be the dumbest thing this team has ever done. the end.

Losing Pep would take away any shot we have to win a SB in the next three years. Drafting DE's is very hit and miss and getting someone to come in to have to learn the system isn't ideal.

By the time the defensive line recovered from the loss of Pep we'd have lose moose and probably jake too.

[mountainpantherfan]

Right now the biggest struggle this team has on the defensive line is a defensive tackle rotation to be more effective. The loss of Ma'ake proved that and as the season's worn on with a few injuries to back ups we've lost a lot of production from that area.

Signing Peppers won't make us worse off, that's what people don't realise. Yes he'll require a big contract, yes he'll probably be the highest paid defensive player ever, BUT. He'll give Hurney more space to work with. We draft a DT in the 2nd round, we look for some valuable FA's at DT ala Lewis a few years ago and the Dline becomes our biggest strength again.

We cannot get better production from the defensive line without Peppers unless we get two new starting calibre defensive ends and a defensive tackle. Suggs isn't that good and is a liability in the running game. Its easy to say X guy had these numbers and will be cheaper than Pep. Its all pointless. We won't find another top 5 DE.

But DT isn't the only area that needs to be improved. Even Super Bowl champions have to look to rebuild every offseason even if they don't lose any starters.

You say that if the Panthers lose Peppers then this team will not be Super Bowl contenders. How do you know this? You don't. No more than you know that keeping Peppers or Gross will maintain the Panthers as a Super Bowl contender.

Sometimes you have to look further ahead then next season. What if a team out there is willing to trade for Peppers in a trade that a la the Cowboys/Walker trade. That trade set Dallas up as the dynasty of the 90's. Analysts at the time thought that while the trade was horrible, the Cowboys trading away Walker was just as bad.

There are some on this forum that are acting ignorant about Peppers, saying that he isn't the talent of Tuck or Abraham. Thats BS and really not intellegent. But I also think the notion that this team has to sign Peppers no matter what is also not very intellegent.

Luckily, you are correct about Hurney. If there is any GM in the NFL I would trust to be able to sign both Gross and Peppers and still find a way to improve the problems that are developing on the defense it is him. But I also trust that if a situation arose where doing a tag and trade for either Gross or Peppers would benefit the team more, he would do that as well.

[KillerKat]

He takes a lot of plays off as it is. If we were to sign him to a huge contract think how easy he would take it.

Bullshit. You havent been paying attention this season...moron.

[Kevin Greene]

If we got Pep for 10 or 11 a year, it would probably actually free up cap space. Not to mention we'll get more cap next year anyhow.

So will everyone else of course.

We need depth at DT, not a superstar. It'd be nice if a Jerry fell to us, but it's not a neccesary thing. Personally I think Hood from Mizzou would be a great fit.

I would like to see another DE that can pressure, but Brayton/Johnson are more than servicable.

As far as Gross and Pep go, of course I wouldn't like to see either go, but Gross is the more expendible. I honestly think he'll sign, but who knows. If not, another franchise tag is probably the way to go.

I don't Peppers demanding as much money as people fear. 10-11 a year is fair. I think if he leaves, it won't be because of the money.

Yep, I don't see franchising Gross as a problem. Peppers at 10-11 mill would work. I'd be concerned how a franchised Peppers might react/perform.

Signing Pep to a long term contract would make his cap hit LESS than what it is right now. I don't think there is even a contract in HELL that would make Peppers a 14 million dollar cap hit for his entire contract...no way that is even a possibility. We could sign Pep to the largest contract in league history (which won't happen) and he wouldn't be a 14 million dollar hit until the end of the new contract in which case it wouldn't be difficult to cut ties because he would be somewhere around 35-37. So in that case we are good on Pep IMO.

Peps potential cap figure is even more attractive when compared to what some top rookies have gotten recently. Pep, formerly a #2 overall has paid far better dividends than it appears Jamarcus Russell ever will for the Raiders. They're on the hook for some 30 mill gauranteed, spiraling to as much as 60 mill for what is apparently a bust.

The Panther have been extremely fortunate with recent first rounders like Deangelo, Stewart and Otah but that certainly hasn't always been the case in the past.

Lock Pep up, franchise or lock Gross up, draft best players avail in draft and use some of that extra cap $ to sign some mid level free agent help.

[Peppers90 NC]

If I was Pep I'd get the hell out of dodge. Before I get blasted for saying this think about it for a second. What have the Panther's did for him but keep him in a double team sitiuation his entire stay with us. I love Steward; however, had we drafted somone to take pressure off Pep where whould he be? On the same note, how much better whould our team be on defense? Lets face it folks our defense sucks. With that said, I have a vision of the Panther's loosing him to a team which has a defense he cant be doubled team and then he blows up into the #1 defender that he is. I hope we dont loose big Bailey, because he cannot be replaced.

Our defense sucks? Really? Let's see, we have played how many top 10 offensive teams this year? The Saints will be twice. We got ran over for 300 yards, which needed overtime to get to. Does Tampa Defense suck too? The Giants game, we were thin at DT, especially after losing Lewis in the first half and not having Kemo at all. We have a top 5 trio of LB's and with the exception of Lucas(who is slumping right now) we are solid in the backfield. To say our defense sucks is a knee-jerk reaction after one game. Had that FG gone threw the uprights, there would be no 300 discussion. Get off the defense sucks and overall I think Fox did a good job making moves in the draft this year, though we will be paying for it next draft. Our offense could help the D sometimes with long drives. I am concerned at injuries on the line, and we could improve there. But we just gave Lewis a new contract so maybe another DE if we can keep Peppers but mostly like people are saying, support depth on the line. Our defense does not suck!