So the Panthers are kinda up shit creek with this Peppers contract situation

[Fiz]

and who are you to say he takes a play off......find me some evidence

are you serious?

Oh and you are downright retarded if you think we'll find a more productive or better defensive end in free agency or in the NFL draft with a late second round pick

congratulation blindsite you've managed to identify the problem i laid out in the original post.

but now that you mention it, I'd rather have Suggs than Peppers

[Delhommey]

If we got Pep for 10 or 11 a year, it would probably actually free up cap space. Not to mention we'll get more cap next year anyhow.

[Fiz]

would you be willing to part ways with Gross?

or some bizarre scenario where Peppers is franchised, Gross is resigned, and we go into next year with the same defensive line and maybe hope to god Marques Slocum slides into the late second round?

[pantherclaw]

Getting rid of Peppers would only make our dline worse. We can certainly afford to keep him, and add to our defense.

[Delhommey]

We need depth at DT, not a superstar. It'd be nice if a Jerry fell to us, but it's not a neccesary thing. Personally I think Hood from Mizzou would be a great fit.

I would like to see another DE that can pressure, but Brayton/Johnson are more than servicable.

As far as Gross and Pep go, of course I wouldn't like to see either go, but Gross is the more expendible. I honestly think he'll sign, but who knows. If not, another franchise tag is probably the way to go.

I don't Peppers demanding as much money as people fear. 10-11 a year is fair. I think if he leaves, it won't be because of the money.

[unicar15]

Signing Pep to a long term contract would make his cap hit LESS than what it is right now. I don't think there is even a contract in HELL that would make Peppers a 14 million dollar cap hit for his entire contract...no way that is even a possibility. We could sign Pep to the largest contract in league history (which won't happen) and he wouldn't be a 14 million dollar hit until the end of the new contract in which case it wouldn't be difficult to cut ties because he would be somewhere around 35-37. So in that case we are good on Pep IMO.

Now we look at Gross....he is a franchise player this year which means that this year he is making as much as the best 5 OT and I'm sure his cap hit follows that trend as well. We could resign him and either keep the hit he has right now OR make the hit less over the total years of his contract

My last point is this....I don't think there is any way that we would have signed Gamble to a long term contract so early if it put us in jeapordy of losing Gross or Peppers. I just don't see that happening. Time and time again we doubt Hurney with cap situations and time and time again he makes it work. This was probably the worst cap year in franchise history with a DE, LT, and CB all hitting FA at the same time and we still found a way to stay under the cap for 2008. Now...all we have to do is find ways to get them to stay and we will be able to pay them. Hurney can work some cap magic and it will all work out.

Remember what Hurney's philosophy is...draft and keep your own and go to FA only when you have to. He would rather pay huge money for guys that he drafted that he thinks are worth it than let them go, spend a little less money, and get guys that are new to the system. There might be some cuts happening, they might have to scrape some change off of Richardson's car floor, but they will find a way to pay both of those guys.

[mountainpantherfan]

So if the Panthers do sign Peppers for 11 million where does that leave getting more help on the d-line? I think not signing Peppers could be the biggest mistake in Panthers history. But signing him and not being able to get anymore help will only result what we saw back in 06 when the team brought back 20 of 22 starters.

For every person who bashes anyone who even mentions Peppers not coming back next season, please tell me how you think the team is going to be able to improve. I want Peppers and Gross to stay in Carolina but when a team isn't trying to improve from one season to another the result is never good.

[unicar15]

So if the Panthers do sign Peppers for 11 million where does that leave getting more help on the d-line? I think not signing Peppers could be the biggest mistake in Panthers history. But signing him and not being able to get anymore help will only result what we saw back in 06 when the team brought back 20 of 22 starters.

For every person who bashes anyone who even mentions Peppers not coming back next season, please tell me how you think the team is going to be able to improve. I want Peppers and Gross to stay in Carolina but when a team isn't trying to improve from one season to another the result is never good.

You have to improve through the draft...and not improving is a better option than getting worse. There is no doubt in my mind that Gross is the most important OLinemen that we have and Peppers is the most important defender that we have. If Hurney lets them go he is an idiot...especially if he lets Peppers go. If we were in a situation where we weren't a playoff team, we had some high draft picks, and we were looking to rebuild then not signing them would be an option. But this is the best Panthers team we have ever had and building on whatever we do this year is crucial...

[Kurb]

Honestly that's worst case scenario Fizzy.

We don't know the current cap situation, and probably never will.

Of course you revel in worst case scenarios

Check this out, it helps me on a daily basis.

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Worst-Case-Scenario-Survival-Handbook/dp/0811825558[/ame]

[rubberpantz]

sooo... my question for the people that think we should let Peppers go....

do you think it's wise to let one of the best players in the NFL leave the team w/out us receiving any compensation?

losing Pep would be the dumbest thing this team has ever done. the end.

[N1kkadeemuz]

Honestly that's worst case scenario Fizzy.

We don't know the current cap situation, and probably never will.

Of course you revel in worst case scenarios

Check this out, it helps me on a daily basis.

http://www.amazon.com/Worst-Case-Scenario-Survival-Handbook/dp/0811825558

First of all that's classic

Second, it's entirely possible to keep Gross and Peppers, at the start of the 08 season the Panthers had like 6mil in cap to play with, if they both resign for long term contracts that frees up cap space immediately, it's at the tail end of the contract that it will start to tighten up.

[Delhommey]

After the Moose situation, they are not going to be outbid on their key stars unless it's by a lot.

[mountainpantherfan]

You have to improve through the draft...and not improving is a better option than getting worse. There is no doubt in my mind that Gross is the most important OLinemen that we have and Peppers is the most important defender that we have. If Hurney lets them go he is an idiot...especially if he lets Peppers go. If we were in a situation where we weren't a playoff team, we had some high draft picks, and we were looking to rebuild then not signing them would be an option. But this is the best Panthers team we have ever had and building on whatever we do this year is crucial...

Hey, I couldn't agree with you more. I just think it's insulting when someone mentions something about Peppers not being here next year and people jump all over them. Hurney would be an idiot if he also didn't look at the options of tagging and then trading either Peppers or Gross for draft picks. I'm not saying that would be the best option but it could be. As fans, we can only speculate on the cap situation and guess at what the best options are.

And as for rebuilding, every team every season is rebuilding. The media only uses that term when teams are transitioning from a QB chance or when they dump a lot of their star players for cap reasons. But in reality, rebuilding happens all the time. And I agree with Fiz that this defensive line needs rebuilding just like the offensive line needed rebuilding last season. Look at what that did for this team this year.

[mountainpantherfan]

sooo... my question for the people that think we should let Peppers go....

do you think it's wise to let one of the best players in the NFL leave the team w/out us receiving any compensation?

losing Pep would be the dumbest thing this team has ever done. the end.

No it wouldn't be wise to lose Peppers without any compensation. But doing a tag and trade with either Peppers or Gross, note that I'm not just singling Peppers out, would probably give the Panther at least a 1st and 2nd round draft picks.

And for the record, teams like the Patriots and Eagles who have multiple consecutive winning seasons make these type of "dumbest thing a franshise could do" moves all the time. Sometimes a team has to look further ahead than just the next season.