the OL has not sucked so far

[glenwo2]

22 hours ago, CPF4LIFE said:

To be fair...i saw jordan have a lot of success against moton today but Darnold either maneuvered in the pocket or got the ball out quick which is something i didnt expect from him. I didn't see a huge improvement from last week i thought they were Just about the same performances but apparently its been good enough to win. I dont want to settle on this tho and hope adjustments are made.

yeah I'm thinking it may not be that the OL has gotten better but that Sam has sharpened his pocket awareness more.

[glenwo2]

Just like the Wide Receivers' jobs are to make the QB look good,  Sam is making the OL look better than it is with his play.

[SBBlue]

5 hours ago, Icege said:

Pat Elflein has indeed sucked so far

 

Elflein has not been great but that analysis isn't entirely correct.

 First play of the game is a run right, away from  Eflien, who  is clearly lined up on #71 R.Ramczyk who plays RT.  First one there is #70 LT C.Ringo who was lined up on Williams.   Rmaczyk leaps  over and grabs CMC's feet AFTER CMC is already tackled.   The tackle was C. Ringo, its hard to see on the TV because the play runs away from the camera, but it looks like it and I'm pretty certain it was was Ringo because the NFL said so in the playbook: 

Carolina Panthers at 15:00  1-10-CAR 25 (15:00) C.McCaffrey right tackle to CAR 28 for 3 yards (C.Ringo) 

CAR_Gamebook.pdf (nfl.com)

I am confident if I continued, I would find other errors because the offense looked pretty good when Elflein was in.  While Elfein was in we marched down field in 5 plays for 75 yards and 7 points.    Darnold was not touched in pass pro while Elflein was in.  Not once.  All of the sacks and hits came AFTER Elflein was out.   

I'm not saying Elflein is great, but you can pick misses and screwups for any lineman even on successful plays.  Even on good linemen.

The MOST DAMAGING missed block of the game was the hit on Darnold that resulted in the turn over.  That pressure came from the right side by a blitzing CB who waltzed untouched right past Moton who chose to double team the tackle instead.    

I could create of series of pictures of Moton missing the block that crushed our chance for a shut out and gave an opening for the Saints to get back in the game, but why do that?  He's out there busting his ass for my team trying to win us games.

Elflein isn't very good, but he is clearly out there busting his ass and he is NOT as bad as huddlers say.

The constant verbal assault from the huddle on our players reflects more on us than on them.



 

[Icege]

10 hours ago, SBBlue said:

Elflein has not been great but that analysis isn't entirely correct.

 First play of the game is a run right, away from  Eflien, who  is clearly lined up on #71 R.Ramczyk who plays RT.  First one there is #70 LT C.Ringo who was lined up on Williams.   Rmaczyk leaps  over and grabs CMC's feet AFTER CMC is already tackled.   The tackle was C. Ringo, its hard to see on the TV because the play runs away from the camera, but it looks like it and I'm pretty certain it was was Ringo because the NFL said so in the playbook: 

Carolina Panthers at 15:00  1-10-CAR 25 (15:00) C.McCaffrey right tackle to CAR 28 for 3 yards (C.Ringo) 

CAR_Gamebook.pdf (nfl.com)

I am confident if I continued, I would find other errors because the offense looked pretty good when Elflein was in.  While Elfein was in we marched down field in 5 plays for 75 yards and 7 points.    Darnold was not touched in pass pro while Elflein was in.  Not once.  All of the sacks and hits came AFTER Elflein was out.   

I'm not saying Elflein is great, but you can pick misses and screwups for any lineman even on successful plays.  Even on good linemen.

The MOST DAMAGING missed block of the game was the hit on Darnold that resulted in the turn over.  That pressure came from the right side by a blitzing CB who waltzed untouched right past Moton who chose to double team the tackle instead.    

I could create of series of pictures of Moton missing the block that crushed our chance for a shut out and gave an opening for the Saints to get back in the game, but why do that?  He's out there busting his ass for my team trying to win us games.

Elflein isn't very good, but he is clearly out there busting his ass and he is NOT as bad as huddlers say.

The constant verbal assault from the huddle on our players reflects more on us than on them.

Looking at the first play now and Ramczyk isn't even on the field because he's their starting RT, not starting DT. #70 is the DT lined up over Elflein who makes the tackle. That defender is Ryngo. Ryngo, as you stated, made the tackle according to the gamebook.

Don't let your sympathy for scapegoats get your goat on this one. The dude is bad and has scored as the weakest player on the OL two weeks in a row now. Is he everything that was wrong? No, but he is at best a quality back-up interior lineman. The man had 23 snaps and nearly a third of those snaps he lost (and lost bad). If he's on the field, that means you're going to be having him get blown up at least once every set of downs.

The turnover you're referencing was also a missed chip block by Terrace Marshall Jr. Look at the play design: the DE is covering the TE to Moton's outside shoulder. Further outside is the blitzing DB. Moton takes the DE since the TE free releases. TMJ came in motion and barely gets a shoulder on the DB as he's releasing to the flat.

It's one thing to blame last year's record exclusively on Teddy, Shaq for the contract Hurney gave him, etc etc... but Elflein has been bad. Is he losing us games? No, but he is losing drives for the team. I hope he succeeds too, but he hasn't shown much to make me believe that he'll be a consistent presence on the OL.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Icege

[MHS831]

The Panthers have yet to trail in any game so far.  They have not had the need to be 1-dimensional, throwing every down.  That will be the true test. LG is our biggest concern.  Wonder about Jordan, Christensen, etc.  When will either be ready?

[shaqattaq]

On 9/19/2021 at 7:52 PM, BlitzMonster said:

On 9/19/2021 at 7:50 PM, jayflip said:

Our pass blocking has been surprisingly adequate. Our push in the run game is oof tho

Yeah, the OL run blocking has not been as good as I would like.  I think our short yardage / goal line push needs to improve.  But the ubertalented CMC seems to make a lot of those issues just disappear. 

I notice that we brought in a n extra lineman (or TE's) to help out a few times as well.

BTW, "surprisingly adequate" was all that I was hoping for all preseason.

[saX man]

35 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Holy crap. So glad I ignored him. His arguments are awful but at least he’s not creating as many threads as the off-season. How can you defend Elflein by saying Ramzcyk from NO was lined up against him and even say he was RT. How would that even work? It’s one thing to mistake a name or number but saying the NO RT lines up over the Panthers LG? Tripping all over yourself to defend Elflein, who’s the consensus worst starter all year and it’s not close. Everyone and their mother in here is saying the same. He’s even been hurt both games. Durability and blocking concerns is a double whammy.

But he's trying really really hard and doing his best darnit!

[SBBlue]

2 hours ago, Icege said:

 but Elflein has been bad. Is he losing us games? No, but he is losing drives for the team.

There is a mob mentality to hate on offensive linemen here.   "Can he play LT" is a constant joke ripping on our LT.   And it is constant.  I have spent plenty of time on other teams forums and I  know that we are one of the worst fanbases for ripping on our OL-men.   Months in offseason and  preseason of panic and derision directed at Erving and Elflein before they even played a snap. 

And now, when the OL is playing decent, the huddle attacks wherever the pff score sends them.  Why?   Seriously why send all this bad energy at our own players?

I'm not arguing if Elflein is a good player.  Pat Meyer and Rhule have determined that Elflein is the best we've got until Brown, BC, or Daley are ready.  The jets threw 1st round guard Elijah Vera-Tucker on the line before he was ready and Derick Brown ate his lunch.  Wilson paid the price.

I'm engaging people who are fueling the mob and will continue to do so.

Why not do the snap shot play by play of fugups on some of our opponents players?

[BurnNChinn]

Wow left side is horrendous. Is there nothing we can do,  not getting LT this off-season might cost us a lot down the road.

[glenwo2]

8 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Damn it looks bad when you show a bunch of plays like that and we still did well on offense. It makes you realize how well Darnold has played. He hasn’t just been sitting back with no pressure at all. It also shows that damn, we miss Norwell, Ryan and Turner from end of 2014 through 2017. We had an interior OL that got push.

I think Sam's "experience" in NY had him prepared to deal with subpar O-Line play again which is why he was able to adjust and play around the weaknesses of the guys upfront.

Edited September 21, 2021 by glenwo2

[Icege]

5 hours ago, SBBlue said:

There is a mob mentality to hate on offensive linemen here.   "Can he play LT" is a constant joke ripping on our LT.   And it is constant.  I have spent plenty of time on other teams forums and I  know that we are one of the worst fanbases for ripping on our OL-men.   Months in offseason and  preseason of panic and derision directed at Erving and Elflein before they even played a snap. 

And now, when the OL is playing decent, the huddle attacks wherever the pff score sends them.  Why?   Seriously why send all this bad energy at our own players?

I'm not arguing if Elflein is a good player.  Pat Meyer and Rhule have determined that Elflein is the best we've got until Brown, BC, or Daley are ready.  The jets threw 1st round guard Elijah Vera-Tucker on the line before he was ready and Derick Brown ate his lunch.  Wilson paid the price.

I'm engaging people who are fueling the mob and will continue to do so.

Why not do the snap shot play by play of fugups on some of our opponents players?

Keep in mind the rule of 10: If something goes well, 1 person hears about it. If something goes poorly, 10 people hear about it. That's what we're seeing here. The position with the most questions is the OL. While some still want a long term LT, for the most part a lot of the early criticism leveled at Erving has not seemed as warranted as that leveled at Elflein. Erving has given up a couple of plays, yes, but has otherwise done very well. Elflein, on the other hand, has been noticeably bad. He loses more than he wins, and is at his best when being asked to combo block.

Hopefully Elflein heals quickly from the hammy. I'm eager to see if Daley or Christensen can earn the starting position, especially should the injury look to be nagging.

[glenwo2]

40 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Probably true and now he’s got a lot more confidence in his WRs and CMC.

I’m really trying to keep my excitement down because we’ve started off 14-7 the last 3 years. This team is a lot different and talented but I still see this as a rebuilding and growing year. We still have 4 OL spots we could absolutely improve and STs has been garbage but we’ve looked pretty solid elsewhere even at the LB position. I do think we’ll hit some more speed bumps against some teams with better offensive weapons. I don’t see anyone on our schedule that scares me as a defense. Buffalo and NE are solid but not scary.

It's New England that concerns me because it was Belichek who caused Sam to "see ghosts" in that game.   Hopefully it will be a different story next time.

[onmyown]

Think the oline was ranked somewhere in the 20s before this game.

After tonight they’ll be competing for bottom of the league.

Don’t know wtf this OP was smoking, this team will never go to post season with that oline unless they shatter NFL historical records doing so.

[*FreeFua*]

Our OL is f*cking horrendous. For the sake of Sam’s development they need to figure something out. 

Sam deserves some serious credit for tonight’s win