Dwayne Jarrett

[Cyberjag]

Fox didn't choose to start Beason. Fox started Beason at MLB b/c Morgan got hurt.

Reading comprehension is your friend. Had you paid attention, you would have noticed that I said Beason beat out Diggs, not Morgan. He was our starting SAM LB his rookie year. When Morgan got hurt, he moved to the middle and Diggs took back the starting role he had the year before.

Whats funny is the idiots that argue that fox..does not favor vets.:sifone:

Every coach in the league favors vets, because the way you get to BE a vet is to be better than all the challengers. But Fox plays rookies and second and third year players all the time.

Do you seriously think that Jarrett is better than Moose? Or even Moore at this point? He hasn't shown it in games, and he hasn't shown it in practice. What he has shown is that he can catch the ball really well against a nickel back, but when the other team's first or second stringer is on him, forget it.

I want the guy to succeed, he's big and young and looks to have all the physical tools in the world. Most of all I want him to succeed because he's OURS and we have him for cheap for a few more years. But he's not succeeding, and we don't play in a developmental league.

[Pejorative Miscreant]

Smith has also bluntly told when he got here he wasn't going to get reps at WR and that he was a returner. Fox obviously wasn't here....but it is just one of many examples of how coaches don't always have there eyes open. I seriously doubt what Smith was showing he could do what that drastically different his rookie year in comparison to year 2.

Not exactly sure where you were going with this but I might agree with you.

My point was that Smith demonstrated was good at what he did in his rookie year and showed effort and passion. Smith is currently demonstrating that he is good at what he does now and shows effort and passion. He has been consistent with that over the years. I dont know that Jarrett has shown or the same drive and passion. Furthermore, Smith was drafted in a later round and given the label as a "specialist" and had a bit of a glass ceiling given his size and background. Jarrett was drafted higher, considered a steal and was projected as a future stud receiver based on his elite background.

My point is effort and hardwork sometimes payoff more that perceived entitlement. That is unless you think there should be a quota for the number of passes thrown to a given receiver in a game regardless of whether he is covered? This on the surface would seem to be rediculous but who am I to judge.

[CRA]

Do you seriously think that Jarrett is better than Moose? Or even Moore at this point? He hasn't shown it in games, and he hasn't shown it in practice. What he has shown is that he can catch the ball really well against a nickel back, but when the other team's first or second stringer is on him, forget it.

I want the guy to succeed, he's big and young and looks to have all the physical tools in the world. Most of all I want him to succeed because he's OURS and we have him for cheap for a few more years. But he's not succeeding, and we don't play in a developmental league.

as a WR? possibly. As a blocker? No. Do I think Moose has enough in the tank to last past this season? No. He has shown it in practice and in limited looks in games he imo does look to be a better pure WR at this point.

Give Jarrett the same amount of targets as Moose gets in two straight games and imo he would have the job. That is opinion....but that is what we all do.

[scpanther22]

Reading comprehension is your friend. Had you paid attention, you would have noticed that I said Beason beat out Diggs, not Morgan. He was our starting SAM LB his rookie year. When Morgan got hurt, he moved to the middle and Diggs took back the starting role he had the year before.

Every coach in the league favors vets, because the way you get to BE a vet is to be better than all the challengers. But Fox plays rookies and second and third year players all the time.

Do you seriously think that Jarrett is better than Moose? Or even Moore at this point? He hasn't shown it in games, and he hasn't shown it in practice. What he has shown is that he can catch the ball really well against a nickel back, but when the other team's first or second stringer is on him, forget it.

I want the guy to succeed, he's big and young and looks to have all the physical tools in the world. Most of all I want him to succeed because he's OURS and we have him for cheap for a few more years. But he's not succeeding, and we don't play in a developmental league.

yes every coach in the league favors vets..but no to the extent that john fox does.And yes jarrett has shown in practice he can play.he has shown on the field he can play too.but jake wont throw too him and fox wont put him out there a lot.

[panthers55]

if you do a search for these stats and the debunking here in the huddle you will find what i have compiled...i know he spreads it around as much as any other QB. my contention is that he only does so as a last resort. he loooks first to smit, then moose, and then back to smith..waiting for both guys to get open and when they can't then he will try dumping off the ball to someone else. this is usually done when the game is getting out of hand.

teams know in most situations that he is going to look and focus in on those two receivers. early on in the season when did most INTs happen? when jake was targeting smith or moose and it was simply because it was obvious that he was going to be targeting them.

Of course he looks for Steve Smith first and Moose second. That is why they are the number 1 and number 2 receiver. They are the best receivers and because of that get alot of targets. When you go through your reads you don't look for the checkdown like Williams first. That is why they are the checkdown. If your first and second or third option aren't open you go to the checkdown before the pressure gets to you and you get sacked.

But all you had to do is look at the game on Sunday to see that your premise is wrong. On at least 5 occasions Jake went to Moose because they were in a cover 1 and the safety was shading to Smith's side putting Moose in single coverage. On 2 occasions they were playing cover 2 and both Moose and Smith were being doubled so he went to King in the gap in front of the safety. And yes he checked down to Williams when everyone else went deep and it worked for 34 yards. The problem with perpetuating this myth is that many people don't see the obvious evidence to the contrary even when they are watching the game. Because anyone who saw the game Sunday and still believes this is true doesn't know how to evaluate what was happening on the field. Sorry if that is blunt but it is true. It wasn't hard to figure out at all.

What I think was happening with Jake earlier in the season was that we were playing 2 receiver sets, not opening up the offense and as a result had few options to throw to, so Jake would try and make a play that wasn't there. Plus we had a lot of long vertical routes called and the protection broke down too quickly. Jake wasn't allowed or just didn't audibelize out of them (I don't know which) and he tossed it up for grabs. Last year it worked and this year it hasn't.

Look at the sacks- in the first 4 games the line gave up 10 sacks. Since then in the last 5 games they have given up 6. The line protection is better but also we are throwing shorter passes, spreading the field and using more checkdowns and options for Jake to get rid of the ball. He is distributing the ball and finding the open guy.

[Cyberjag]

yes every coach in the league favors vets..but no to the extent that john fox does.

I would like to see you back that up with facts that exist outside of your imagination...

[Cyberjag]

as a WR? possibly. As a blocker? No. Do I think Moose has enough in the tank to last past this season? No. He has shown it in practice and in limited looks in games he imo does look to be a better pure WR at this point.

Give Jarrett the same amount of targets as Moose gets in two straight games and imo he would have the job. That is opinion....but that is what we all do.

I hate to break it to you, but people who are in the business of evaluating this sort of thing disagree with you.

Jarrett got the start two weeks ago. What did he manage to do? Moose got the start again last week, and how did he do?

This year Jarrett's getting 8.5 yards per reception, and 2.6 yards after catch. He has a drop, and a long of 17 yards. He's caught 10 balls.

Moose has caught 30, at 10.3 yards per catch, with a long of 22 and an average yards after catch of 2.9. He has no drops.

Bear in mind that most of Moose's catches have been against the starting cornerback, while Jarrett's are coming against nickel backs.

I can't find stats on balls that go through a player's hands, but I've seen both Jarrett and Moose have that happen this year.

So I'm looking, and can't find any evidence that Jarrett is better than Moose at anything, other than maybe growing hair on the crown of his head.

I guess what I'm saying is that after looking at the stats, I can see why the coaches trust Moose more. Makes a lot of sense, actually.

[MaineManPanther]

Exactly. Who on the roster at the time of the saints game should have been FB? There was no vet (or FB at all really) for Fox to put in. So that argument holds no water. He put in a rookie who should never have to play FB in because he had very few options.

King? Rosario? Both are capable h-backs who can play there. With two other capable tight ends, you wouldnt have lost anything at the TE position. But he put in Sutton.

[scpanther22]

I would like to see you back that up with facts that exist outside of your imagination...

I would like for few to get a clue:ciappa:

[MaineManPanther]

There are a lot of guys who look awesome in practice and suck in real games. Where that coaching knowledge there? There are also many examples of guys who were cut and came back and become great players. Why didnt the guys with more football knowledge than us see their potential and work with it? because agian they MAKE MISTAKES. if what you guys say is correct we should never complain about any personnel decision they ever make, ever! not any draft busts or fa pickups or anything.

True, but there are very few players who suck at practise and are awesome in games. So in the end you base it on practise. What else to have to go on to judge if a player is better then the other?

There are also very many more players that were cut and never saw the Nfl or played as backups. You give one player for you, and I can name 20 atleast.

Why? Because while good coaches do make mistakes, when you get down to it there right more then there wrong. Where not saying you can't complain, but use facts and logic. Not specualtion like " fox wont start so and so because he loves vets' . Not to point you out in paticular.

[carolinanimal]

I hate to break it to you, but people who are in the business of evaluating this sort of thing disagree with you.

Jarrett got the start two weeks ago. What did he manage to do? Moose got the start again last week, and how did he do?

This year Jarrett's getting 8.5 yards per reception, and 2.6 yards after catch. He has a drop, and a long of 17 yards. He's caught 10 balls.

Moose has caught 30, at 10.3 yards per catch, with a long of 22 and an average yards after catch of 2.9. He has no drops.

Bear in mind that most of Moose's catches have been against the starting cornerback, while Jarrett's are coming against nickel backs.

I can't find stats on balls that go through a player's hands, but I've seen both Jarrett and Moose have that happen this year.

So I'm looking, and can't find any evidence that Jarrett is better than Moose at anything, other than maybe growing hair on the crown of his head.

I guess what I'm saying is that after looking at the stats, I can see why the coaches trust Moose more. Makes a lot of sense, actually.

But moose wont be here forever! you can trust him all you want eventually he will break down. he is 35! Even fox your lord and master said that jarrett has done well with the opportunities given him. sometimes i even wish for him to go somewhere else where he would be utilized. he catches whats thrown to him. he is a possession reciever, he is not going to burn anyone down the field. what kind of production do you guys want from him as the 3rd reciever? how often do we even use 3 wides in a game. smith and moose are locks to start.

Wr/qb relationship is symbiotic. a wr HAS to have the qb throw him the ball to get stats or production. look at steve smith, he had a horrible first couple of games. is that because he sucks and now he is better? no. he is the same smith he has always been. We are just throwing him the ball!!!

[scpanther22]

I hate to break it to you, but people who are in the business of evaluating this sort of thing disagree with you.

Jarrett got the start two weeks ago. What did he manage to do? Moose got the start again last week, and how did he do?

This year Jarrett's getting 8.5 yards per reception, and 2.6 yards after catch. He has a drop, and a long of 17 yards. He's caught 10 balls.

Moose has caught 30, at 10.3 yards per catch, with a long of 22 and an average yards after catch of 2.9. He has no drops.

Bear in mind that most of Moose's catches have been against the starting cornerback, while Jarrett's are coming against nickel backs.

I can't find stats on balls that go through a player's hands, but I've seen both Jarrett and Moose have that happen this year.

So I'm looking, and can't find any evidence that Jarrett is better than Moose at anything, other than maybe growing hair on the crown of his head.

I guess what I'm saying is that after looking at the stats, I can see why the coaches trust Moose more. Makes a lot of sense, actually.

When jarrett was starting they had jake and the entire passing game on short leash..

[GRWatcher]

King? Rosario? Both are capable h-backs who can play there. With two other capable tight ends, you wouldnt have lost anything at the TE position. But he put in Sutton.

King did line up behind Jake a few times as FB. I think Barnidge did too. But let's look at what can happen when you put someone in as FB that isn't use to playing FB. At the goal line Bernardo runs into Jake. Bingo, one of those plays that cost us a TD.

Who knows? Maybe Sutton volunteered to play FB. It happens. So the question about that is: Who knows?? We sure as hell don't.

Who's the 4th TE?

A thread about Jarrett turns into a bash Jake, Fox sucks thread. It is all so ugly. And predictable. :beatdeadhorse5:

[MaineManPanther]

King did line up behind Jake a few times as FB. I think Barnidge did too. But let's look at what can happen when you put someone in as FB that isn't use to playing FB. At the goal line Bernardo runs into Jake. Bingo, one of those plays that cost us a TD.

Who knows? Maybe Sutton volunteered to play FB. It happens. So the question about that is: Who knows?? We sure as hell don't.

Who's the 4th TE?

A thread about Jarrett turns into a bash Jake, Fox sucks thread. It is all so ugly. And predictable. :beatdeadhorse5:

Sutton is a rookie rb. So he proably has less expirence at fullback then either of them . Even if sutton voluntered Fox would put in the player he thought was best. Not just because somone wanted to.