Sam Darnold Thoughts After Game 1

[mav1234]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

correct, all short throws are not checkdowns.  But like I said, statistically, he is overwhelming playing with 10 yards of field. 

a trend that comes form camp, to preseason, to week 1. 

you can't compete with good teams with that type of football.  The Payton/Brady offense isn't a small ball passing scheme.  That simply what Matt Rhule and his QBs are doing.   That was built in with Teddy.  Looks coached in for Darnold.   

The problem with Teddy was NOT that he played overwhelming short fields. It's that he couldn't make the throws the defense gave him to go deeper than that on occasion, which this offense needs. In one game, Darnold displayed more arm strength than Teddy ever did in a game.  Darnold does need to improve for sure, but Teddy's problem was he stopped taking what the D gave him if it wasn't within 15 yards. Darnold doesn't seem to have that issue... But could as time goes on.  We don't really know.

And anyway, it appears Darnold had more 20+ yard past the LoS completions than Wilson... Fewer 10-20, true.  Meh, I think we need to see more from Darnold.

[SetfreexX]

5 minutes ago, CRA said:

correct, all short throws are not checkdowns.  But like I said, statistically, he is overwhelming playing with 10 yards of field. 

a trend that comes form camp, to preseason, to week 1. 

you can't compete with good teams with that type of football.  The Payton/Brady offense isn't a small ball passing scheme.  That simply is what Matt Rhule and his QBs are doing.   That was built in with Teddy.  Looks coached in for Darnold.   

Have you ever watched the Saints offense, this is a variant of that. Force them to respect the short to intermediate, and when they creep up dial up the shot down field. 

The 2nd quarter is a perfect culmination of that, DJ had two catches 20+, and then there was Robbie's 57 yard TD. 

If you pay attention our OL was not going to hold up LONG ENOUGH to take shots all game, what's important is that the shots we did take weren't grossly underthrown. 

Sam overall looked very good, and his release is much quicker having a chance to watch him. He made those throws under duress as well. It was good to see a QB stand tall, there was not a lot of that with T2G. 

[Jaxel]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

well will see.  I view Sam for what he is.  A 4th year starter.   Rehab project or not.   He has to prove he can play like a starting NFL QB pretty quick, especially given Matt Rhule has opted to have this roster be Sam Darnold and nothing else.   I got no interest in giving him 5 or 6 years to just confirm he is what we likely knew in year 2. 

100% with you. I was a big fan of Sam and wanted us to trade for him before he became available so we obviously approach it from two different points of view. Regardless we are both in a wait and see pattern and I'll gladly admit being wrong if things go south.

 

[CRA]

4 minutes ago, Jaxel said:

100% with you. I was a big fan of Sam and wanted us to trade for him before he became available so we obviously approach it from two different points of view. Regardless we are both in a wait and see pattern and I'll gladly admit being wrong if things go south.

 

and people all view me as some giant Sam hater.  But again, I was an advocate to go get him when he really wasn't talked about around here.  But that was to kick the tires.  The potential seemed worth it.  But not to  make him the only plan/option.   That's my problem.  I think given how bare we are at QB.....they are going to coach a super conservative approach with Sam.  Which is just going to delay the obvious questions that needed to be addressed. 

[CRA]

13 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

Have you ever watched the Saints offense, this is a variant of that. Force them to respect the short to intermediate, and when they creep up dial up the shot down field. 

The 2nd quarter is a perfect culmination of that, DJ had two catches 20+, and then there was Robbie's 57 yard TD. 

If you pay attention our OL was not going to hold up LONG ENOUGH to take shots all game, what's important is that the shots we did take weren't grossly underthrown. 

Sam overall looked very good, and his release is much quicker having a chance to watch him. He made those throws under duress as well. It was good to see a QB stand tall, there was not a lot of that with T2G. 

pretty sure I have watched the Saints O a time or two.....especially the version that didn't cater to letting Brees finish out his career with no arm. 

and I'm not sure 3 pass completions beyond 10 yards is the Saints/LSU Payton O in effect. 

OLs don't have to hold long to successfully attack beyond 10 yards.   Deep bombs isn't what is argued for.   Intermediate.  That's where you saw a lot of the bad in NY though.   

[LinvilleGorge]

8 minutes ago, CRA said:

and people all view me as some giant Sam hater.  But again, I was an advocate to go get him when he really wasn't talked about around here.  But that was to kick the tires.  The potential seemed worth it.  But not to  make him the only plan/option.   That's my problem.  I think given how bare we are at QB.....they are going to coach a super conservative approach with Sam.  Which is just going to delay the obvious questions that needed to be addressed. 

This. I was fine giving Darnold a shot. But I hated the trade compensation. It really felt like we were probably bidding against ourselves. I think we would've ultimately gotten him for less had we drove a harder bargain. It's also baffling to see a guy like Minshew who had played better in just as bad of a situation later go for a 6th. In on every deal? We should've been in on that one given our backup situation and the roll of the dice at starter. Who cares if Darnold feels pushed? Hell, he needs to feel pushed. What has he done to go into a season as an unquestioned starter? If he can't handle the pressure of being pushed by his backup then he's not the guy. We hope to some day play in some games again that actually matter. There's gonna be pressure when those games happen.

[Jaxel]

13 minutes ago, CRA said:

and people all view me as some giant Sam hater.  But again, I was an advocate to go get him when he really wasn't talked about around here.  But that was to kick the tires.  The potential seemed worth it.  But not to  make him the only plan/option.   That's my problem.  I think given how bare we are at QB.....they are going to coach a super conservative approach with Sam.  Which is just going to delay the obvious questions that needed to be addressed. 

Completely respect that and I don't think your a Sam hater at all, I think I. Just more optimistic about the situation.

[Jaxel]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

This. I was fine giving Darnold a shot. But I hated the trade compensation. It really felt like we were probably bidding against ourselves. I think we would've ultimately gotten him for less had we drove a harder bargain. It's also baffling to see a guy like Minshew who had played better in just as bad of a situation later go for a 6th. In on every deal? We should've been in on that one given our backup situation and the roll of the dice at starter. Who cares if Darnold feels pushed? Hell, he needs to feel pushed. What has he done to go into a season as an unquestioned starter? If he can't handle the pressure of being pushed by his backup then he's not the guy. We hope to some day play in some games again that actually matter. There's gonna be pressure when those games happen.

On the flip side, I don't think the compensation was bad at all, if he hits your got a steal, sometime you got to make risks to real rewards. I think this qualifies as a measured risk.

 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Jaxel said:

On the flip side, I don't think the compensation was bad at all, if he hits your got a steal, sometime you got to make risks to real rewards. I think this qualifies as a measured risk.

 

I just don't think there was anyone else bidding.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, mav1234 said:

Finally, a checkdown is not the same as a designed short yardage throw to get YAC.  This offense lives and breathes quick short passes by design.  It is about working in the scheme and taking what the D gives you and letting your skill plays demonstrate their skill.

Basically, a West Coast Offense.

[aces]

I don't view Sam as a reclamation project or someone who hasn't proven himself a starter in the league. Look at the great games he's already had in the league:

24/35 341 yds 3 TDs vs. Packers

24/38 253 yds 2 TDs vs. Texans

24/30 280 yds 2 TDs vs Colts

25/41 334 yds 1 TD vs Dolphins 

20/29 315 2 TDs vs. Raiders

19/30 293 yds 4 TDs vs. Wash

23/32 338 yds 2 TDs vs. Cowboys

 

All he needed is some talent around him and he'll put up great stats regularly.

 

[glenwo2]

I just want Sam to complete at least ONE intermediate throw so that @CRAwon't complain anymore.