Rhule vs Saleh

[CRA]

23 minutes ago, NAS said:

For full transparency, here is the NFL defensive coordinator/assistant to NFL head coach record.  Only 9 out of 26 had winning records, or about 33%.  It's probably worse if you include offensive coaches.  That's at approximately the same rate as college to NFL (3 out of 10).

Wade Phillips (82-64)

Steve Spagnuolo (11-41)

Matt Patricia (13-29-1)

Dan Quinn (43-42)

Rex Ryan (61-66)

Todd Bowles (24-40)

Bill Arnsparger (7-28)

Dom Capers (48-80)

Bill Belichick (274-126)

Buddy Ryan (55-55-1)

Eric Mangini (33-47)

Rod Marinelli (10-38)

Romeo Crennel (32-63)

Jim Schwartz (29-51)

Brian Flores (15-17)

Mike Zimmer (64-47-1)

Mike Vrabel (29-19)

Vic Fangio (12-20)

Ron Rivera (83-72-1)

Steve Wilks (3-13)

Chuck Pagano (53-43)

Mike Pettine (10-22)

Mike Tomlin (145-78-1)

Vance Joseph (11-21)

Marvin Lewis (131-122-3)

Leslie Frazier (21-32-1)

got to expand it out beyond just winning records too. Look at the losers.   How many of those coaches got more than 1 shot at being a HC.  That's part of the equation.  A Romeo Crennel, a Dom Capers, a Buddy Ryan all get second shots because they are NFL guys who stay in the league. 

Saleh would go back to being a DC for a minute if he doesn't succeed at attempt #1.  Like a Josh McDaniels did.  Wait for his second chance.  Rhule isn't going to go be a NFL coordinator most likely and hang around.  Which lowers his odds of NFL success. 

[NAS]

26 minutes ago, CRA said:

Saleh would go back to being a DC for a minute if he doesn't succeed at attempt #1.  Like a Josh McDaniels did.  Wait for his second chance.  Rhule isn't going to go be a NFL coordinator most likely and hang around. 

That's a fair point, if they don't succeed with their current teams, Saleh is in a better position to get another shot at it.  I do think Rhule is in a better situation in Carolina to implement his program.  Saleh has the better QB situation though, at least for now.

[Tbe]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

Yeah and he coached the Jets. Poor coach at that point and poor team. I was thinking of him and Belicheck when I said this.

Fun fact. When Carrol became the Seahawks HC, people complained that he was turning the org into ‘USC North’ because of the former Trojans he kept bringing in.

 

[kungfoodude]

9 minutes ago, Tbe said:

Fun fact. When Carrol became the Seahawks HC, people complained that he was turning the org into ‘USC North’ because of the former Trojans he kept bringing in.

 

Almost every college head coach gets this thrown at them. The Baylor/Temple thing doesn't bother me. It only lasts so long anyway because the pool of guys they know(pre-NFL) grows smaller and smaller as the years pass.

[OldhamA]

1 hour ago, frankw said:

This is malarkey. The criticism stems from going from that guy to Teddy two yards and only mustering a single divisional victory. If Rhule brings the wins there will be few if any complaints. But it's his show. Not Cam Newton's not Luke Kuechly's not any former Panther you want to drag into this. The buck stops with the head coach. Ask Ron Rivera. Rhule and Fitt need some success in a big way for '21. This oline better hold up.

So where's the criticism coming from then?

Our roster last year, pre-Draft, was horrendous. We relied heavily on Brown, Chinn, YGM and Roy. Pride played, but was in and out of the lineup.

He's not a magician. 

[OldhamA]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

and that is a list that contains some of the best college football had to offer.   And Rhule wasn't a Saban, Spurrier, Kelly, etc tier college coach. 

 

Wasn't he? Seems to me he turned two programmes around and turned them into 10+ game winners and was then poached by the Panthers - the Jets interviewed him the previous year and the Giants wanted to interview him too. He was very much on the rise as a HC and had a lot of success behind him.

Saban's talent is having his mate as the head of the NCAA. He just cheats and stacks his rosters / coaching staff. You saw what he achieved with a level playing field in Miami. 

[frankw]

1 minute ago, OldhamA said:

So where's the criticism coming from then?

Our roster last year, pre-Draft, was horrendous. We relied heavily on Brown, Chinn, YGM and Roy. Pride played, but was in and out of the lineup.

He's not a magician. 

Criticism happens to every coach across every sport on every team. Fans are fans it's a results driven business. Rarely are new head coaches given the reins to a franchise already in great shape. Yet the issue that has been a thorn in our side for many years remains. The oline. All that matters is which direction the team is trending by the end of the year.

[cookinbrak]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

(especially when we are talking about a guy with one season of NFL HC experience to date). 

Which is one more than Saleh.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, cookinbrak said:

Which is one more than Saleh.

This was literally the point you stopped reading the post and reacted. 

[Mistuh Jones]

Haven't seen anything to compare yet since Saleh has yet to coach his first regular season NFL game, let alone the entire season. I'd say Rhule year two has MIGHTILY increased the talent at the bottom of the roster so far. Panthers are set up excellently for the next few seasons. 

[Harbingers]

10 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

As long as Rhule doesn't use Temple and Baylor as his pipeline for professional players, I think Rhule has just as good an opportunity to be good as Salah. 

Welp that’s already happening so… 

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

Wasn't he? Seems to me he turned two programmes around and turned them into 10+ game winners and was then poached by the Panthers - the Jets interviewed him the previous year and the Giants wanted to interview him too. He was very much on the rise as a HC and had a lot of success behind him.

Saban's talent is having his mate as the head of the NCAA. He just cheats and stacks his rosters / coaching staff. You saw what he achieved with a level playing field in Miami. 

No, he never had the kind of success those guys did. Predominantly because he wasn't a coach very long, even in college and went from one program to the next. Remember, his college winning percentage was only 0.522. That's because he built and then bolted.

It could easily be argued that is a more valuable trait than going to a college power and succeeding but not all those coaches who came in had a stacked deck at every place they were successful in college.

IMO, college success isn't a great predictor of NFL success(to be clear: I have NOT vetted this statement statistically) because the reasons for success in college football don't translate to the NFL. Same sport, but vast differences. It's like comparing NASCAR success to NHRA success. Both racing but completely different kinds.

 

[CRA]

18 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

Wasn't he? Seems to me he turned two programmes around and turned them into 10+ game winners and was then poached by the Panthers - the Jets interviewed him the previous year and the Giants wanted to interview him too. He was very much on the rise as a HC and had a lot of success behind him.

Saban's talent is having his mate as the head of the NCAA. He just cheats and stacks his rosters / coaching staff. You saw what he achieved with a level playing field in Miami. 

No.  Matt Rhule isn't on par with Kelly, Saban, Spurrier in terms of being a college coach.   He might be a better NFL one.  

Matt Rhule was almost a .500 coach in college and pulled off 1 conference title in his career.  He did pull teams out of the gutter and make them respectable.    But they basically just beat who they were suppose to beat and lost to everyone else. 

Rhule wasn't a Hall of Fame caliber college coach.  Other 3 are. 

[Martin]

From what I’ve heard from 49ers friends, Salah is mostly a rahrah guy that looks great on the sideline. Not that impressive as a cordinator, but time will tell.