Good feels, but we see the elephant in the room

[top dawg]

It's preseason. That's all I can really say about beating the blocks off an incomplete Steelers squad. I know everyone feels good that we finally got a win in the books, but we were not facing the Steelers' best, and we were really supposed to beat them pretty handily, and we did.

Our defensive unit looks pretty amazing! It really does. The addition of Haason Reddick and Daquan Jones brings instant dividends. I don't think many statuesque QBs and anything less than a stout line will have a chance against them. They're going to give the opposition some problems. As long as the backend holds up their end of the bargain, we'll easily be a top 10 unit. I was definitely encouraged by Jaycee Horn's lockdown prospects last night, but even more encouraged by Donte Jackson's sure tackling. Moreover, our safeties, as a unit, may be better than advertised. They have some attitude, and look to know what they're doing out there, but we'll see in September.

One thing I hope that we don't see next month is the O-line getting pushed around like styrofoam peanuts on breezy day. I mean, the interior implodes time and time again, like you're looking at the same bad scene of a video on loop. I don't have to explain the repercussions. Darnold will NEVER be all that he can be--Darnold v. 2--nor will he be able to effeciently play with all the great new toys in his toy box if he's running for his life. And, I don't even know if CMC can negotiate the waves of hands and arms as they come crashing into the backfield like a storm surge on the "dirty side" of a hurricane.

Now, of course, it's preseason...Maybe we haven't seen our O-line's best. Maybe we've seen the vanilla version--yes, I'm being sarcastic--like that's really a thing for the offensive line. Imitation vanilla! [*chuckles*] Rhule needs to stop mixing it up! The offensive line needs to gel--develop chemistry and comfort, not be playing some ill-conceived version of musical chairs because this leads to an effective riot in the pocket and in the backfield. I mean, every series you're beginning to expect a jailbreak by the opposition. You're holding your breath like when Joey Slye is attempting a field goal. And, I'm not necessarily talking about how just fans are feeling, Sam Darnold could easily be feeing the same thing.

We have roughly a couple of weeks to get our sh¡t together on the O-line, or this season might just become one helluva fait accompli on many levels. The O-line play is not acceptable, and unless they can pick someone up, or maybe scheme around deficiencies, I'm afraid that the term "big uglies" is going to be more literal for Panthers fans in 2021. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by top dawg

[kungfoodude]

Everyone could see that OL was going to struggle. The coaches pretty much telegraphed it the entire offseason by constantly shuffling them and making the "best five" comment. What he meant is "competent five" and they are still searching. But, that is basically what you get when you don't invest properly in your OL. 

IMO, just roll with the young guys, let them take their lumps and hope over the 17 games you see some improvement and chemistry develop. All these journeyman and JAGs that are getting waxed over and over......let them ride the pine for those paychecks.

[Raleigh PF]

I don't think the best version of the OLine was out there last night. 

Of course, we're fans, so what do we know, but I would prefer the line to be, from left to right:

Moton-Daley/Miller-Paradis-Brown-Christensen

I think this will likely BE the line within a few weeks. Elflein and Erving should be depth pieces, not starters.

The other issue is continuity. Lotsa new faces on the line and not having time together is going to cost them early. Whoever is out there, I would expect to get better, but I think the first few weeks are going to be rough.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, Raleigh PF said:

I don't think the best version of the OLine was out there last night. 

Of course, we're fans, so what do we know, but I would prefer the line to be, from left to right:

Moton-Daley/Miller-Paradis-Brown-Christensen

I think this will likely BE the line within a few weeks. Elflein and Erving should be depth pieces, not starters.

The other issue is continuity. Lotsa new faces on the line and not having time together is going to cost them early. Whoever is out there, I would expect to get better, but I think the first few weeks are going to be rough.

That's why it has been so frustrating to watch Elflein and Erving continue to be trotted out there. They were always going to suck. 

I agree, though. That combination is the most likely that we see(barring injury) by midseason. 

[top dawg]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

Everyone could see that OL was going to struggle. The coaches pretty much telegraphed it the entire offseason by constantly shuffling them and making the "best five" comment. What he meant is "competent five" and they are still searching. But, that is basically what you get when you don't invest properly in your OL. 

IMO, just roll with the young guys, let them take their lumps and hope over the 17 games you see some improvement and chemistry develop. All these journeyman and JAGs that are getting waxed over and over......let them ride the pine for those paychecks.

And that's the real elephant: not a sucky O-line, but the franchise's seeming inability or unwillingness to develop one that puts out QB in the best position to succeed. It's a story that we've seen for going on a decade. 

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, top dawg said:

And that's the real elephant: not a sucky O-line, but the franchise's seeming inability or unwillingness to develop one that puts out QB in the best position to succeed. It's a story that we've seen for going on a decade. 

I think if we see that line collapse over and over this season, which seems likely, then it will suddenly become a priority in the 2022 offseason. If there is anything encouraging, it seems like Rhule and Fitterer are REALLY quick to change course when they made a mistake. 

[Tinamedina]

The OLINE is better than yall give it credit for. Sam darnold is who he is. The OLINE holds up long enough to make plays. If sam doesn't, it's on sam. Hes a 4 year vet, #NoCoddling

[panthers55]

Seems every year we bitch about the O line yet they tend to get ranked in the middle most years.

Using pff for comparison.

2020 -19th

2019- 18th

2018- 17th

You see the theme. So now we are ranked 30th heading into the season. My prediction is we end up better than 30th perhaps in the high teens once again.

 

So can we stop bitching about how awful they are. With no gameplanning they played 3 top 10 defenses and looked OK. Not good but better than all of this bitching would suggest.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, Tinamedina said:

The OLINE is better than yall give it credit for. Sam darnold is who he is. The OLINE holds up long enough to make plays. If sam doesn't, it's on sam. Hes a 4 year vet, #NoCoddling

I didn't see a lot of holding up long enough to throw anything more than Teddy passes. I have little to no belief in Sam Darnold but it's going to be hard to judge him well if that line is getting blown up as quickly as it was last night.

[NAS]

I agree O Line was pushed around by the Steelers backups, although they were blitzing. On the bright side, our receivers were able to get separation for quick passes by Darnold who did a good job not holding onto the ball too long.  The concern is that against the starters, it would have been much worse and that offensive line would have really struggled.

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, NAS said:

I agree O Line was pushed around by the Steelers backups, although they were blitzing. On the bright side, our receivers were able to get separation for quick passes by Darnold who did a good job not holding onto the ball too long.  The concern is that against the starters, it would have been much worse and that offensive line would have really struggled.

Yeah, we will see what happens when it actually matters in Week 1. Like you said, good thing we have all these top end offensive weapons that can make plays after the catch.

It will be interesting to see poor CMC have to deal with these guys in the run game. Then again, perhaps they will be a lot more stout in run blocking. We can only hope.

[top dawg]

17 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I think if we see that line collapse over and over this season, which seems likely, then it will suddenly become a priority in the 2022 offseason. If there is anything encouraging, it seems like Rhule and Fitterer are REALLY quick to change course when they made a mistake. 

But what bothers me is that we seem stuck in a loop. The not-so-good O-line is not going to play well with our QB, so it's going to get a little nebulous as to how good or bad our QB is, which may lead to QB being a priority again.

 

12 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Seems every year we bitch about the O line yet they tend to get ranked in the middle most years.

Using pff for comparison.

2020 -19th

2019- 18th

2018- 17th

You see the theme. So now we are ranked 30th heading into the season. My prediction is we end up better than 30th perhaps in the high teens once again.

 

So can we stop bitching about how awful they are. With no gameplanning they played 3 top 10 defenses and looked OK. Not good but better than all of this bitching would suggest.

I could argue that the reason Cam never really became what he should have been was in large part because of the O-line. Perhaps, more importantly, I could argue that an O-line that left a lot to be desired is why there's no Lombardi trophy in Charlotte. So, looking through the PFF or Football Outsiders rankings, they're really hollow when you have at least one pig with lipstick on. 

Basically, you're as strong as your weakest link(s)!

Kind of an off note: When you take a QB who hasn't made the best decisions under pressure and stick him behind an O-line that gives up pressure, ultimately nothing else really matters. 

I'll keep hoping for a "good" season, however unfulfilled, and maybe we can fix the O-line come next year...

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by top dawg

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, top dawg said:

But what bothers me is that we seem stuck in a loop. The not-so-good O-line is not going to play well with our QB, so it's going to get a little nebulous as to how good or b

 

I could argue that the reason Cam never really became what he should have been was in large part because of the O-line. Perhaps, more importantly, I could argue that an O-line that left a lot to be desired is why there's no Lombardi trophy in Charlotte. So, looking through the PFF or Football Outsiders rankings, they're really hollow when you have at least one pig with lipstick on. 

Basically, you're as strong as your weakest link(s)!

Kind of an off note: When you take a QB who hasn't made the best decisions under pressure and stick him behind an O-line that gives up pressure, ultimately nothing else really matters. 

I'll keep hoping for a "good" season, however unfulfilled, and maybe we can fix the O-line come next year...

 

We are going to have to prioritize it at some point. You can't keep not investing or investing as poorly as we have and things magically just get better. This is purely my speculation but I kind of think that OL isn't viewed as much of a priority by Rhule. I don't mean that to say that it isn't important to him but the biggest thing they seem fixated on is building a talented and dominant defense. Which, I don't disagree with that at all. So, perhaps once that project is complete, they will start to fix the offensive line. 

IDK, it's the only thing I can come up with, anyway. They might just keep continuing to shovel through all this coal to try and find some diamonds. I guess we will find out.

[glenwo2]

22 minutes ago, Tinamedina said:

The OLINE is better than yall give it credit for. Sam darnold is who he is. The OLINE holds up long enough to make plays. If sam doesn't, it's on sam. Hes a 4 year vet, #NoCoddling

 Yeah let's go with that so it supports your narrative.

Edited August 28, 2021 by glenwo2