Perspective, Directive, and Erective - The Panthers offensive woes and you

[CRA]

3 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Colin Thompson screwed up the play by whiffing on his block.  Had he blocked his man the hole was off tackle, between LT and the supposed block of Thompson, but he whiffed and a defender hit the gap causing Hubbard to bounce outside.  At that point, the play was doomed.  Re-watch the clip and look at the lazy attempt of a block by #86.

the OL didn't look good but you are right, the play came down to the TE/FB putting a body on one man.  If he did it....it was a touchdown.   He barely chipped his guy and he blew the play up.  

[shaqattaq]

On 8/22/2021 at 8:17 AM, hepcat said:

They needed film on running into a brick wall on 4th and goal?

They could have just asked Elflien, he was turned around watching the entire thing!

[45catfan]

16 minutes ago, CRA said:

the OL didn't look good but you are right, the play came down to the TE/FB putting a body on one man.  If he did it....it was a touchdown.   He barely chipped his guy and he blew the play up.  

Why would you chip on the 1-yard line?  It seems he was more concerned about getting to the second level.  Why?  You have one yard, getting to the second level for a block is pointless. Again if you watch the clip, his focus was getting to a LB at the next level and not the DB right in front of him.  I'm not sure if it was so much a chip as the defender was just in Thompson' way as he was looking for a LB to block...IN THE END ZONE.

[shaqattaq]

30 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Colin Thompson screwed up the play by whiffing on his block.  Had he blocked his man the hole was off tackle, between LT and the supposed block of Thompson, but he whiffed and a defender hit the gap causing Hubbard to bounce outside.  At that point, the play was doomed.  Re-watch the clip and look at the lazy attempt of a block by #86.

You gotta believe that in a real game that would have been Tremble (since we cut all the FB's). I thing this was Rhule trying to decide If Thompson makes the team or not. If that's his best blocking...I'm leaning towards NOT. 

[CRA]

10 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Why would you chip on the 1-yard line?  It seems he was more concerned about getting to the second level.  Why?  You have one yard, getting to the second level for a block is pointless. Again if you watch the clip, his focus was getting to a LB at the next level and not the DB right in front of him.  I'm not sure if it was so much a chip as the defender was just in Thompson' way as he was looking for a LB to block...IN THE END ZONE.

Probably because he is a TE out of Temple....and had no business being put in that position to begin with.  

Prime opportunity to rep Tremble there.  To see if they could get away with not having a true FB. 

 

[ZeroZeroSeven]

5 hours ago, SOJA said:

I count five guys in our backfield lol 

 

Worse than that...I see 6, 7 if you count the guy going to the ground at the LOS.

[pantherj]

6 hours ago, SOJA said:

I count five guys in our backfield lol 

Pat Elflein looked like an elderly man being spun around in a washing machine. We've had some of the worst o-linemen you're going to see at the NFL level out there during our preseason games.

Edited August 23, 2021 by pantherj

[shaqattaq]

1 hour ago, ZeroZeroSeven said:

Worse than that...I see 6, 7 if you count the guy going to the ground at the LOS.

At least we're triple teaming #95. That bastard aint going anywhere!

[45catfan]

3 hours ago, ZeroZeroSeven said:

Worse than that...I see 6, 7 if you count the guy going to the ground at the LOS.

The guy that Hubbard is trying to brush off is the same guy Thompson bumped into try to block downfield.  Actually form this still shot, had Thompson actually effectively blocked that initial defender, Hubbard had a chance.  All you have to do is swap Hubbard and Thompson in this shot.  Would #31 and 95 have stopped him?  Possibly, but Hubbard could have dove into the end zone too.

[45catfan]

17 minutes ago, stbugs said:

 

I don’t think you guys are right on Thompson. Daley was pulling and going to come around Erving who was crashing down towards the middle. Daley was supposed to have already cleared out the hole by taking out that DB still to the left of Erving. It wasn’t meant to bounce outside of the DB.

Elflein and Paradis blew the play up, period. Look at Daley and Thompson’s legs get mixed up. They had no place to go because Paradis and Elflein got blown back so much. Unfortunately, the video in the OP starts late because you lose the fact that Daley is literally on top of Elflein at the start so you can’t see as easily that he was pulling to kick out while Thompson goes through the hole followed by Chuba.

The play was FUBAR 1 second into it. Maybe they can coach up Thompson in the film session so he knows better what to do if the play is blown up, but I put no blame on Daley or Thompson for not making their planned blocks. When your pulling G doesn’t even get past the C before getting hit, that’s not his issue and when the FB gets tangled up with the pulling G who should be long gone, that’s not his issue.

Also, who was the TE on the left side. Looks like he got knocked back too.

So Thompson was supposed to let the DB get past him?  If there is an unblocked man coming free to the play side and you are a blocker, you block him whether or not he was his assigned man.  Yes, Daley was pulling but he was most likely supposed to seal the backside pressure while Thompson was supposed to kick any outside pressure to the wide side of the play.  Instead it looks like is a FB dive play, but Thompson just doesn't have the ball. 

Thompson ducks down as to lower the shoulder into the guy, brushes him off and keeps on trucking into in the end zone.  Had he extended his hands and engaged the DB, locking him up, Hubbard could have continued on the path that Thompson himself eventually took.

Edited August 23, 2021 by 45catfan

[CRA]

17 minutes ago, stbugs said:

 

I don’t think you guys are right on Thompson. Daley was pulling and going to come around Erving who was crashing down towards the middle. Daley was supposed to have already cleared out the hole by taking out that DB still to the left of Erving. It wasn’t meant to bounce outside of the DB.

Elflein and Paradis blew the play up, period. Look at Daley and Thompson’s legs get mixed up. They had no place to go because Paradis and Elflein got blown back so much. Unfortunately, the video in the OP starts late because you lose the fact that Daley is literally on top of Elflein at the start so you can’t see as easily that he was pulling to kick out while Thompson goes through the hole followed by Chuba.

The play was FUBAR 1 second into it. Maybe they can coach up Thompson in the film session so he knows better what to do if the play is blown up, but I put no blame on Daley or Thompson for not making their planned blocks. When your pulling G doesn’t even get past the C before getting hit, that’s not his issue and when the FB gets tangled up with the pulling G who should be long gone, that’s not his issue.

Also, who was the TE on the left side. Looks like he got knocked back too.

maybe.  I have watched it a thousand times. It's just horrible.  I have a new take every time because I key in on someone else that failed miserably. 

other TE is Ian Thomas.  He didn't get knocked backed as much as he was just easily shoved down to the ground using his own momentum.  

[ForJimmy]

You had me at erective. 

[Icege]

The more that I go back and watch that 4th down stop, the more that I realize it was just better defense by the Ravens combined with bad play on the part of both TEs.

Ian Thomas gets slung to the ground immediately by Tyus Bowser while Colin Thompson puts an ineffective shoulder into DeShon Elliot rather than squaring him up. Daley was late getting around due to Paradis having 2 DL + 1 MLB bull rush him off the snap, but what really killed the play was Thomas getting thrown to the ground and Thompson's poor technique. Bowser was left free and forced Chuba to bounce outside, and Elliot had barely moved from the love tap by Thompson. If Thomas doesn't get thrown to the ground, Chuba doesn't bounce it to the outside and scores. If Thompson actually blocked Elliot, then maybe Chuba gets around him and scores. More on Thomas than Thompson, but both failures result in a 4th & goal from the 1yd line going nowhere.

I'd like to see that same play ran with Darnold and Tremble. Darnold might not fair much better than Thomas did, but Tremble would have leveled Elliot.

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Icege

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, Icege said:

The more that I go back and watch that 4th down stop, the more that I realize it was just better defense by the Ravens combined with bad play on the part of both TEs.

Ian Thomas gets slung to the ground immediately by Tyus Bowser while Colin Thompson puts an ineffective shoulder into DeShon Elliot rather than squaring him up. Daley was late getting around due to Paradis having 2 DL + 1 MLB bull rush him off the snap, but what really killed the play was Thomas getting thrown to the ground and Thompson's poor technique. Bowser was left free and forced Chuba to bounce outside, and Elliot had barely moved from the love tap by Thompson. If Thomas doesn't get thrown to the ground, Chuba doesn't bounce it to the outside and scores. If Thompson actually blocked Elliot, then maybe Chuba gets around him and scores. More on Thomas than Thompson, but both failures result in a 4th & goal from the 1yd line going nowhere.

It was definitely a group effort.

I don't think we are constructed at the moment to win many of those goal line or short yardage battles by going hat on a hat. For all our criticism last season of Brady getting cute in the red zone, I think those reps showed why we are likely doing that, because we have to.

Perhaps some years from now we can construct an offensive line(and TE corps) that will win more of those than they lose.