Thursday joint practice news and tweets

[Jorgie]

They’ll probably play better tomorrow and then what

[Proudiddy]

3 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

Let's be real - I hate John Fox. I hate Ron Rivera. Those two coaches were incredibly flawed 'player' coaches that meant we had incredible highs and incredible lows. We wasted 3-4 Hall of Famers under those guys. 

Rhule is cut from a different cloth. We'll be a consistent winner under him. He's organised, process driven and ruthless. I'm willing to have patience because I can see the improvements on the field.

I agree with everything, except I have to hedge on the patience.  While I know we're young and he's building his program and his culture here, I don't want to lean on that as a crutch from success.  

He showed enough ability as a talent developer and as a tactician last year that I believe we should make the playoffs this season.  I will be disappointed with anything less.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Proudiddy said:

I agree with everything, except I have to hedge on the patience.  While I know we're young and he's building his program and his culture here, I don't want to lean on that as a crutch from success.  

He showed enough ability as a talent developer and as a tactician last year that I believe we should make the playoffs this season.  I will be disappointed with anything less.

I'm not demanding the playoffs this season. Improvement is enough for me.

I've said before I think this is rebuild year one rather than year two. Still stand by that.

[panthers55]

I am really looking forward to seeing practice tomorrow. The Colts defense gave our offense plenty of bulletin board material. Hopefully we respond when it counts on Sunday. We'll not really counts but you know what I mean.

[Captain Morgan]

https://www.panthers.com/news/camp-observations-panthers-off-to-sluggish-start-with-colts

 

Center Matt Paradis made the trip with the intention of practicing Thursday, but felt some more tightness in his back and didn't go.

Left tackle Cameron Erving was back after missing the last two days of practice in Spartanburg with a shoulder issue, but he wasn't taking the normal load of reps.

Dennis Daley, who could compete for a tackle or a starting guard spot, didn't make the trip, as he was excused for a family matter.

That left an odd lot of players being used in new combinations, as they were also using Taylor Moton some at left tackle instead of right. They were rolling new guys through drills every few plays, so it wasn't necessarily conducive to a cohesive performance.

Sam Tecklenburg worked with the ones at center rather than moving left guard Pat Elflein inside as has been the case most of camp when Paradis wasn't in.

With that much mixing and matching, you can expect it to have rough spots. On one snap, running back Christian McCaffrey was behind the second offensive line, and was swallowed in the backfield by a Colts defensive line that's talented at the top, as well as deep.

 

 

— Cornerback Jaycee Horn mixed it up with Colts receiver Michael Pittman, and ended up taking a swing before they were separated.

Horn has a reputation as a physical player, and you can sense that opposing receivers may try to goad him into things. Steve Smith Sr. used to do that to cornerbacks all the time, particularly the young and confident ones. Horn has to be ready for that kind of treatment.

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Captain Morgan

[Floppin]

38 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

I am (minus maybe the crazy part lol) and I will, Floppin.  But, I don't feel this is applicable in this situation.  I'm not raging or flying off the handle.  Everyone knew coming into the season that the OL was going to be a work in progress and the known the weakest unit on the team...  What I've posted in this thread is how disappointing it is that our defense made made two scrub QBs look like Phillip Rivers never left and how our coaching staff isn't helping our synergy or chemistry by rotating guys in and out of the most important position on the OL.

I understand pre-season practice and TC would be the ideal time to mess around with lineups and see what sticks, but it just seems there was never a concrete plan in place going into this.

The O-line is a known work in progress and/or problem area. Rhule and the rest obviously know this is the case as well. I think it's fairly obvious that they would like to be in a different position WRT to the o-line but, for many reasons, we just are where we are. I mean, we could argue that we could have approached our line problems differently via FA or the draft, but those discussions have been had here ad nauseum. 

Therefore, things being what they are, some shuffling of the o-line throughout training camp - ESPECIALLY prior to any live action - and rotating players throughout the line just makes sense from an evaluation standpoint. A joint practice being an even more ideal situational occasion for such. I don't see them doing so as any reason to believe one way or the other about the true state of our line moving forward. 

[OldhamA]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm not demanding the playoffs this season. Improvement is enough for me.

I've said before I think this is rebuild year one rather than year two. Still stand by that.

No, no, this is definitely year two of the rebuild.

He picked up a couple of cornerstones in Brown and Chinn in year one (fingers crossed YGM continues to develop) - they're not freebies. 

He made a mistake by listening to his OC and his mentor and investing heavily in Bridgewater. I'm glad he was ruthless / wise enough to move on from that error quickly (besides his play on the field [i.e. leaving plays on them] he was a bad culture fit too). 

He's made the bold move of trying to reclaim Darnold (I think it's a very shrewd investment) and in the process passed over Fields and Jones at QB. 

He's knee deep in this rebuild now. He's had two offseasons to put together his roster with HIS players.

I'm not expecting Playoffs because that's a high bar and I still think the roster is too young / lacks talent in some key areas, but I want to continue to be a tough out and finish above .500 this season. Next year I want to become a consistent winner. 

[Jared Patterson]

When PFF ranked us the 31st best oline in the league they were spot on. Not a single guy besides Moton is even serviceable.....

[Proudiddy]

6 minutes ago, Floppin said:

The O-line is a known work in progress and/or problem area. Rhule and the rest obviously know this is the case as well. I think it's fairly obvious that they would like to be in a different position WRT to the o-line but, for many reasons, we just are where we are. I mean, we could argue that we could have approached our line problems differently via FA or the draft, but those discussions have been had here ad nauseum. 

Therefore, things being what they are, some shuffling of the o-line throughout training camp - ESPECIALLY prior to any live action - and rotating players throughout the line just makes sense from an evaluation standpoint. A joint practice being an even more ideal situational occasion for such. I don't see them doing so as any reason to believe one way or the other about the true state of our line moving forward. 

Agreed.  It's just the sense of instability that bothers me and I hope we have less of that the closer we get to the season opener.

[panthers55]

16 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I've watched people every year put huge faith in an organization, coaching staff, front office, etc. like they've come to expect success. I'm a Panthers fan and I'll always HOPE for us to be good but I'm not going to act like we've been a successful organization and put my head in the sand and act like everything is fine when an objective observer can easily see some pretty critical issues.

It is possible to be optimistic and a realist at the same time.  Being positive and looking for the good even in a bad situation is an attitude you assume despite the reality. You surely know what is happening because that doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the obvious. It is the ability to reframe things to avoid constant anger and disappointment in the team you chose to root for. Being positive the past 3 years has been difficult given the great starts and terrible finishes.  For me it is remembering that the past had nothing to do with the present or the future unless it was the recent past. So each year I know that it is a do over and a chance to do better.  So I stay optimistic and hope for the best. What you characterize as a type of naivete or blind allegiance, I characterize as supporting my team and giving them the benefit of the doubt until they deserve otherwise. And after last year's 3-5- 3 prevent defense and the reports today it would be easy to be critical of the defense but that would be ridiculous at this point.

[Jon Snow]

31 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

It is funny how many always immediately jump to framing the usual "reactionaries," but they/we are equal to or even outnumbered by those irrationally positive and optimistic fans who have been droning on the same rah rah stuff for decades now.

Not to be morbid, but I often think of all of the Huddlers and Panthers fans that we have lost over these 25+years who kept believing the present was a developmental year with low expectations while believing the next year our team would get things right so we could be patient, and that is depressing.  

Dont get me wrong, I believe in Rhule from what we've seen so far and I think we're in a much better place moving forward than we've been in in decades, if not ever...  but, I really wish the majority of our fanbase would get this ho hum, "we'll get them next year," attitude out of our collective mind.  I understand patience and time have their place, but eventually you either are a winning program or you're not, and we as a fanbase have been way too comfortable with inconsistency and mediocrity.

(NOTE: This post is not a commentary on or reaction to today's practice or this thread, but rather an overall cumulative observation from over the years.)

As far as I can tell we haven't lost a game this season.  If and when we do then we all can join in on the hand wringing and finger pointing.  I'm not sure how that is being rah rah about anything.   

[kungfoodude]

10 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

No, no, this is definitely year two of the rebuild.

He picked up a couple of cornerstones in Brown and Chinn in year one (fingers crossed YGM continues to develop) - they're not freebies. 

He made a mistake by listening to his OC and his mentor and investing heavily in Bridgewater. I'm glad he was ruthless / wise enough to move on from that error quickly (besides his play on the field [i.e. leaving plays on them] he was a bad culture fit too). 

He's made the bold move of trying to reclaim Darnold (I think it's a very shrewd investment) and in the process passed over Fields and Jones at QB. 

He's knee deep in this rebuild now. He's had two offseasons to put together his roster with HIS players.

I'm not expecting Playoffs because that's a high bar and I still think the roster is too young / lacks talent in some key areas, but I want to continue to be a tough out and finish above .500 this season. Next year I want to become a consistent winner. 

Agreed. This is clearly year two.

 

I don't necessarily even need .500. Give me .500 with a clear path to above. 500. Let's say that the biggest issues are OL and QB(for instance). That means we have limited slots to fill. That works for me.

In Rhule's career, he has always been a third year guy. This should be a transition year if that pattern holds.

[Proudiddy]

2 hours ago, Captain Morgan said:

https://www.panthers.com/news/camp-observations-panthers-off-to-sluggish-start-with-colts

 

Center Matt Paradis made the trip with the intention of practicing Thursday, but felt some more tightness in his back and didn't go.

Left tackle Cameron Erving was back after missing the last two days of practice in Spartanburg with a shoulder issue, but he wasn't taking the normal load of reps.

Dennis Daley, who could compete for a tackle or a starting guard spot, didn't make the trip, as he was excused for a family matter.

That left an odd lot of players being used in new combinations, as they were also using Taylor Moton some at left tackle instead of right. They were rolling new guys through drills every few plays, so it wasn't necessarily conducive to a cohesive performance.

Sam Tecklenburg worked with the ones at center rather than moving left guard Pat Elflein inside as has been the case most of camp when Paradis wasn't in.

With that much mixing and matching, you can expect it to have rough spots. On one snap, running back Christian McCaffrey was behind the second offensive line, and was swallowed in the backfield by a Colts defensive line that's talented at the top, as well as deep.

 

 

— Cornerback Jaycee Horn mixed it up with Colts receiver Michael Pittman, and ended up taking a swing before they were separated.

Horn has a reputation as a physical player, and you can sense that opposing receivers may try to goad him into things. Steve Smith Sr. used to do that to cornerbacks all the time, particularly the young and confident ones. Horn has to be ready for that kind of treatment.

 

I dont mean to harp on this...  but, I'm going to.

I've had a good rapport with Voth and Gantt in the past on Twitter and appreciate them both, but the reporting this TC has been atrocious.  We had a full two hour practice in which they could've mentioned that Paradis wasn't out there, but they didn't.  All I read was that he made the trip and heard nothing else about him, even as the Colts pounded our OL.  

Furthermore, The Colts' reporters were all over their stats and personnel.  They prolly tweeted more about us than our own guys did...  To further my point, their beat guys had the exact stats for both of their QBs, yet all we got during the practice was OL sucked, Darnold looked ok but no details, and DL was good.  After practice we finally get numbers (Darnold was 7 for 13), but no context.  Some more hours after practice, we find out there was a ton of drops by our receivers, which contributed to our QBs' numbers, and this after hearing nothing but rave reviews about our receivers during the practice...  this is getting really frustrating, and I don't understand the reason for it.  If they're trying to save juicy tidbits for their in-house productions, that is a horrible strategy versus the immediate information being available to fans.

[Proudiddy]

3 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

As far as I can tell we haven't lost a game this season.  If and when we do then we all can join in on the hand wringing and finger pointing.  I'm not sure how that is being rah rah about anything.   

I was referring to the dichotomy over the years, not today.