Christensen ...

[kungfoodude]

6 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

So ok, maybe not fail. Let's go with, not succeed. Still has negative connotations. That's fine. I'm going to go find some folks that are a little more positive.

 

I'm too excited for this year to go down that road. Have fun, take care, and stay safe.

That is your problem, you view any hint of reasonable doubt with hysteria.

It's just plain weird. 

Especially when the Panthers fail much more than they succeed. 

[SBBlue]

42 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

The formula would also include the extra draft capital spent on Darnold in the trade. 

That's an interesting take.  The problem is, we had already spent the draft capital on Darnold because it didn't look like Fields or any top QB was going to fall to us. 

When the 9ers traded up, and the Lions traded away Stafford, many thought, 4-5 QBs could very well be gone.  Who would have thought the Lions would take a LT they didn't need.  Some thought Atlanta might select Ryan's replacement. 

It was possible we could walk out of the draft with no QB and have Teddy another year after we had very publicly spent months trying to replace him.  AWKWARD.

So the formula becomes

Darnold+Horn-DraftPicks > Darnold+Fields-DraftPicks-BenchedQB

The DraftPicks cancel out to become:
Darnold+Horn > Darnold+Fields-BenchedQB

Assuming Darnold is benched it returns to
Darnold+Horn>Fields

Now we might have been able to trade Darnold away after the draft, but a lot of potential suitors had found their guy in the draft.

Edited August 10, 2021 by SBBlue

[Basbear]

WFT is this??? I go looking for new friends on grindr and every time I click on a match, it redirects this thread?? Waste of time, IMMM PISSSSSED!!!

[kungfoodude]

14 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

That's an interesting take.  The problem is, we had already spent the draft capital on Darnold because it didn't look like Fields or any top QB was going to fall to us. 

When the 9ers traded up, and the Lions traded away Stafford, many thought, 4-5 QBs could very well be gone.  Who would have thought the Lions would take a LT they didn't need.  Some thought Atlanta might select Ryan's replacement. 

It was possible we could walk out of the draft with no QB and have Teddy another year after we had very publicly spent months trying to replace him.  AWKWARD.

So the formula becomes

Darnold+Horn-DraftPicks > Darnold+Fields-DraftPicks-BenchedQB

The DraftPicks cancel out to become:
Darnold+Horn > Darnold+Fields-BenchedQB

Assuming Darnold is benched it returns to
Darnold+Horn>Fields

Now we might have been able to trade Darnold away after the draft, but a lot of potential suitors had found their guy in the draft.

Well, remember this is a hindsight discussion ultimately. Also, one we won't have complete answer on for a few seasons, even if Darnold is a bust in 2021.

IMO, the picks involved in the Darnold trade are valid to use in the formula with Fields simply because they filled a hole he could have taken. Obviously we couldn't be sure that a QB would fall to us, especially him. But he ends up in the calculation because he did and we passed. 

I don't view the "trade Darnold after the draft" scenario as valid. It's both difficult to pull off and also makes the team look ridiculous. I think a more likely scenario would have been keeping Darnold and Fields to create a competition. Which, I would have been okay with that too.

As I have stated multiple times, I value QB over CB fairly significantly. 

[Catsfan69]

20 hours ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

Maybe not yet. But he'll mess up and get banned all over again. It's the nature of the beast.

It would be nice if like most forums there was a written set of rules.

[SBBlue]

Quote

 

28 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

 even if Darnold is a bust in 2021.

or isn't.
 

Quote

IMO, the picks involved in the Darnold trade are valid to use in the formula with Fields simply because they filled a hole he could have taken. Obviously we couldn't be sure that a QB would fall to us, especially him. But he ends up in the calculation because he did and we passed. 

2 Things happened:

1)We did trade for Sam Darnold.
2)Fields and Jones fell to 8 and we passed.

Why do you live in this imaginary world where #1 didn't happen, but #2 did?
Would you consider moving to a world, where #2 didn't haappen and #1 did?...please

 

Quote

I don't view the "trade Darnold after the draft" scenario as valid.

I agree.

Quote

 I think a more likely scenario would have been keeping Darnold and Fields to create a competition. Which, I would have been okay with that too.

You either bench valuable draft capital in Darnold or Fields in this scenario, an very large waste.
  

Quote

As I have stated multiple times, I value QB over CB fairly significantly. 

Ahh, but do you value a player on the bench over the #1 defensive player in the draft?
Because that is the choice.
 

[SBBlue]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

Yes, he said Phil Snow was the origin of the idea to bring in Darnold.  Claimed Snow thought he looked like Matt Stafford on tape.   

Snow IMO has always been the key to Rhule’s success so he probably has more pull than anyone with Rhule.  
 
But yeah, all that plays into why I am critical of what they have done.  This ain’t small time college football where great D paired with average QB play wins.  Which IMO is what Rhule and Snow did in college. 

Yup.  I can't find the video interview but here the quote :  link

"We were sitting there one day on defense, and I can't remember (exactly) what we were watching, we were watching a cut up, and Sam was playing on the other side of the ball, and a couple times he made some throws, and Phil Snow, our defensive coordinator, was like, 'Man, that kid looks like Matt Stafford.' And so, we put a couple games on – and this is the defensive staff -- and they were all like, 'You know what, every game we watch, he makes a couple of big-time plays, and there has to be some meat on the bone there,' " Rhule said.

"So, kind of went through the process and kept watching him and going back and watching him in college and watching his pro day and then going back and watching his first year in a different offense and the second year and his third year. When the compensation was enough where we didn't have to give up what we thought was too much that [it] would hurt our team and a chance to get him here, we'd watched so much tape on him that we saw enough shining moments."

[Basbear]

[SBBlue]

As I read this quote again

"When the compensation was enough where we didn't have to give up what we thought was too much that [it] would hurt our team and a chance to get him here, we'd watched so much tape on him that we saw enough shining moments."

It sounds like we talked them down?

[Brooklyn 3.0]

Man ... having an almost-three-year-old, recently having moved, and starting a new job makes me be able to say ... WHO? Really. I had to google who this kid was. Life moves quick, man.

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

or isn't.
 

2 Things happened:

1)We did trade for Sam Darnold.
2)Fields and Jones fell to 8 and we passed.

Why do you live in this imaginary world where #1 didn't happen, but #2 did?
Would you consider moving to a world, where #2 didn't haappen and #1 did?...please
 

You have such an illogical discussion style. 

5 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

You either bench valuable draft capital in Darnold or Fields in this scenario, an very large waste.
  

Ahh, but do you value a player on the bench over the #1 defensive player in the draft?
Because that is the choice.
 

Is Trey Lance a waste for the 49ers? Was Aaron Rodgers a waste for the Packers? Do you care about "waste" when you have an answer at a critical position?

I am genuinely perplexed by this idea of "waste." So do you consider quality depth "waste?" Is YGM "waste" because he doesn't start? Terrace Marshall? I consider a "waste" a pick like Greg Little. He was a waste for obvious reasons.

Also, the "#1 defensive player in the draft" is what he was drafted. We have zero idea if that will be the actual case. Could be Horn is a bust, could be Fields is a bust, could be Darnold continues to be a bust, could be Sewell is a bust, etc, etc. We have no idea about any of then, other than Darnold.

I think this is basically where you are failing in following the logic, there are other scenarios that may play out other than the ones in your mind. 

Hence why I am saying that Darnold+Horn will be compared to players we passed on at 8 and the draft capital we gave up. It's not a spectacularly difficult to follow. 

What we got versus what we gave up. Simple as that, really. My question would be, why would you exclude any of those factors? Give me your ultimate reasoning.

[SBBlue]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

Is Trey Lance a waste for the 49ers?

TBD
 

Quote

Was Aaron Rodgers a waste for the Packers?

Apparently not.
 

Quote

Do you care about "waste" when you have an answer at a critical position?I

Yes.  The jets thought they had the answer in Darnold and traded up to get him, mortgaging their future.  

Seriously, there are other players in football besides QB and oline Kungfoodude.
 

Quote

am genuinely perplexed by this idea of "waste." So do you consider quality depth "waste?"

No.  I consider benching  8th overall, or 3 picks benched indefinitely waste. 
 

Quote

Is YGM "waste" because he doesn't start? Terrace Marshall? 

No, and TM might start if we go 3 wide.
 

Quote

Also, the "#1 defensive player in the draft" is what he was drafted. We have zero idea if that will be the actual case. 

Same goes for Fields.

Quote

Could be Horn is a bust, could be Fields is a bust, could be Darnold continues to be a bust, could be Sewell is a bust, etc, etc. We have no idea about any of then, other than Darnold.

We don't know about Darnold either.
 

Quote

I think this is basically where you are failing in following the logic, there are other scenarios that may play out other than the ones in your mind. 

We weren't discussing what might happen.  We were discussing what HAPPENED.  We traded for Darnold before the draft.  We passed on Fields and Jones at 8.  You were saying that the Darnold picks should be included in the equation for passing on Fields.  I was explaining to you that is IMPOSSIBLE because they were already spent.
 

Quote

Hence why I am saying that Darnold+Horn will be compared to players we passed on at 8 and the draft capital we gave up.

 The. draft. capital. was. already. spent.
 

Quote

It's not a spectacularly difficult to follow. 

Apparently it is for you because you have trouble comprehending that the draft capital was gone when we passed on a QB at 8.  
 

Quote

 My question would be, why would you exclude any of those factors? Give me your ultimate reasoning.

You exclude the draft capital spent for Darnold because it was gone when we passed on Fields.   

Why do you want to live in this imaginary world where we didn't trade for Darnold and pass on Fields?
What does it buy you?
Its done dude.  Darnold's here.  We didn't draft oline in rounds 1,2 and 3...HEY...wait a minute.  On another thread you said you wanted OLINE in round 1, NOT FIELDS.  So now you're just trolling.

OK now I understand why the trolls keep pie-ing you.  It's becoming clear now.

  

[kungfoodude]

46 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

TBD
 

Apparently not.
 

Yes.  The jets thought they had the answer in Darnold and traded up to get him, mortgaging their future.  

Seriously, there are other players in football besides QB and oline Kungfoodude.
 

No.  I consider benching  8th overall, or 3 picks benched indefinitely waste. 
 

No, and TM might start if we go 3 wide.
 

Same goes for Fields.

We don't know about Darnold either.
 

We weren't discussing what might happen.  We were discussing what HAPPENED.  We traded for Darnold before the draft.  We passed on Fields and Jones at 8.  You were saying that the Darnold picks should be included in the equation for passing on Fields.  I was explaining to you that is IMPOSSIBLE because they were already spent.
 

 The. draft. capital. was. already. spent.
 

Apparently it is for you because you have trouble comprehending that the draft capital was gone when we passed on a QB at 8.  
 

You exclude the draft capital spent for Darnold because it was gone when we passed on Fields.   

Why do you want to live in this imaginary world where we didn't trade for Darnold and pass on Fields?
What does it buy you?
Its done dude.  Darnold's here.  We didn't draft oline in rounds 1,2 and 3...HEY...wait a minute.  On another thread you said you wanted OLINE in round 1, NOT FIELDS.  So now you're just trolling.

OK now I understand why the trolls keep pie-ing you.  It's becoming clear now.

  

You literally cannot follow the discussion at all. I see why you answer the way you do, because you get lost in the weeds without seeing what the actual discussion is even about.

We are taking about a future scenario of Darnold+Horn versus Fields plus what it cost to get Darnold. The entire point of that discussion is the "what if" scenario for their FUTURE. 

Literally read back through our discussion and see how quickly you derail it by not being able to hold a coherent thought process.

I said I wanted OL and not Fields. Oh yeah, show me where I said that. By all means, show me the post where I made that statement.

Also, look at the title of this thread. You sure we didn't take OL in the first three rounds?

Edited August 11, 2021 by kungfoodude

[iamhubby1]

2 hours ago, Catsfan69 said:

It would be nice if like most forums there was a written set of rules.

 

Well, to be honest. When it first started. We didn't need to. It's only really gotten bad since Cam was drafted. Before that we had a few Trolls, but they weren't nearly as obnoxious as this generation.

 

But I see what you mean. Make a "Be a good Boy" contract that folks have to sign when they register. lol