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Zod

By Zod,
in Carolina Panthers

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

I think you may have responded to the wrong thread. Your last post in this thread was about Tannyhill, and Gase. Just an FYI

I asked what point was being made with the post.   Only thing I walked away from was Gase came in and QBs immediately had their best season.   Was that the point?   If not, that is why I asked.   Tannehill's downfall in Miami was more injury related than anything IMO.  Blew his ACL after the playoff season.   Messed up shoulder the year coming back from the ACL. 

that post about Tannehill/Gase was a continuation of the discussion about Urban's QBs.  The poster said we should do the same with Gase. 

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ForJimmy Grand Master

ForJimmy

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

No, no we don't. But this place is a mess right now. What with the bullies, and all the negativity. He just adds to the watering down of teh Huddle. Too bad too, this place used to be a great place. Nowadays, not so much.

 

We had the All Pro section for a few years, and that helped. But alas, that is gone by the wayside. I wish there was some other place to go.

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SBBlue Veteran

SBBlue

Posted
Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, CRA said:

When Gase connected with those two QBs, they immediately had there best season.  Yet he is at fault for everything when it comes to Darnold?  

First of all, I'm sorry. I conflated discussions and thought it was about Sam.  So that's my bad. 

To answer your question, it's complicated.

2016 was Tannehill's best season by QB-record and passer rating in Miami, but he only threw for 230 yards a game, his worst to that point.  His int% went from 2.0% to 3.1% when Gase arrived.

By QBR and TD's,  2014 was his best year with over 250 yards a game.

The wheels fell off for Tannehill's second Gase year, where he only threw for 179 yards a game with an atrocious 3.3 int% .  His QBR was the lowest of his career at 33.2.  He was traded pretty cheap after that.

The same pattern emerged for Darnold.  A sharp decline the second year under Gase.

Gase's old-school reliance on the run game and screens can make the passer rating look good while at the same time reducing yards and touchdowns substantially.

I agree that not all of the problems were on Gase, but high int%, low touchdowns, low yardage, low QBR  are highly correlated with his tenure for both Tannehill and Darnold.

There's a reason Gase has the reputation he does.


   
 

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

First of all, I'm sorry. I conflated discussions and thought it was about Sam.  So that's my bad. 

To answer your question, it's complicated.

2016 was Tannehill's best season by QB-record and passer rating in Miami, but he only threw for 230 yards a game, his worst to that point.  His int% went from 2.0% to 3.1% when Gase arrived.

By QBR and TD's,  2014 was his best year with over 250 yards a game.

The wheels fell off for Tannehill's second Gase year, where he only threw for 179 yards a game with an atrocious 3.3 int% .  His QBR was the lowest of his career at 33.2.  He was traded pretty cheap after that.

The same pattern emerged for Darnold.  A sharp decline the second year under Gase.

Gase's old-school reliance on the run game and screens can make the passer rating look good while at the same time reducing yards and touchdowns substantially.

I agree that not all of the problems were on Gase, but high int%, low touchdowns, low yardage, low QBR  are highly correlated with his tenure for both Tannehill and Darnold.

There's a reason Gase has the reputation he does.


   
 

year 1 - a healthy Tannehill went to the playoffs in year 1.  

year 2 - blew his ACL and missed the entire season

year 3 - coming back from ACL, injured his throwing shoulder. 

Injury killed Tannehill in Miami more than Gase being a touch of death.  Historically, Gase's average to below average QBs have overachieved in his system in year 1 as a HC or OC.  

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SBBlue Veteran

SBBlue

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, CRA said:

year 1 - a healthy Tannehill went to the playoffs in year 1.  

year 2 - blew his ACL and missed the entire season

year 3 - coming back from ACL, injured his throwing shoulder. 

Injury killed Tannehill in Miami more than Gase being a touch of death.  Historically, Gase's average to below average QBs have overachieved in his system in year 1 as a HC or OC.  

Injury did play a role for sure.   But his int% grew 50% upon Gases arrival,  BEFORE the injury.  His yardage per game dropped substantially before his injury.  His yards per game had been increasing every year until Gase arrived.    His int% had been on a decline.  Those trends reversed when Gase arrived and before the injury.  They continued their reversal after the injury.

Did injury hurt Tannehill's performance more than Gase?  Maybe.  

But the "bad decision making" represented by interception percentage spiked when Gase arrived before the injury. 

I'm not saying its all on Gase. 
I'm saying Gase isn't blameless.

BTW, all of the jets problems weren't on Gase either.  They mortgaged everything to trade up to get Darnold and then couldn't draft for sht with the picks they did have.  That doesn't mean Gase was a good coach.  He wasn't.

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ForJimmy Grand Master

ForJimmy

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, CRA said:

year 1 - a healthy Tannehill went to the playoffs in year 1.  

year 2 - blew his ACL and missed the entire season

year 3 - coming back from ACL, injured his throwing shoulder. 

Injury killed Tannehill in Miami more than Gase being a touch of death.  Historically, Gase's average to below average QBs have overachieved in his system in year 1 as a HC or OC.  

Didn’t Darnold get mono in his second year and injure his throwing shoulder last year (year 3)? 

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

Injury did play a role for sure.   But his int% grew 50% upon Gases arrival,  BEFORE the injury.  His yardage per game dropped substantially before his injury.  His yards per game had been increasing every year until Gase arrived.    His int% had been on a decline.  Those trends reversed when Gase arrived and before the injury.  They continued their reversal after the injury.

 

I think Gase is a weak HC.  But his QBs generally are what they are IMO.  Good, bad or average.  They show where they are.   

So I think Darnold is average as average can be.   Could be wrong.  But nothing about Rhule's average college QBs screams Rhule's programs have a magic QB touch...for our org to be trying to turn average into more. 

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SBBlue Veteran

SBBlue

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, CRA said:

I think Gase is a weak HC. 

Agreed.

Quote

But his QBs generally are what they are IMO.  Good, bad or average.  They show where they are.   

So Tannehill was ~3.0 int%, low yardage guy and Tenn has him overperforming?
 

Quote

So I think Darnold is average as average can be.   Could be wrong. 

Maybe, we're going to find out.  He better be better than Teddy.
 

Quote

But nothing about Rhule's average college QBs screams Rhule programs have a magic QB touch...for our org to be trying to turn average into more. 

Yeah, Rhule's secret sauce was Snow.  They won on defense.  

BUT, Joe Brady HAS taken what looked like an average QB and magically turned him into to more. 

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

Agreed.

So Tannehill was ~3.0 int%, low yardage guy and Tenn has him overperforming?
 

Maybe, we're going to find out.  He better be better than Teddy.
 

Yeah, Rhule's secret sauce was Snow.  They won on defense.  

BUT, Joe Brady HAS taken what looked like an average QB and magically turned him into to more. 

yeah, I don't think Tannehill is special.  Derrick Henry has lead the NFL in rushing and rushing TDs the last 2 seasons.  Derrick Henry is special.  You remove Derrick Henry and I think Tannehill would be average.

maybe.  Or maybe Joe Burrow is just a guy that thrives in a NFL pass scheme and not a college one.  Joe Brady brought the Saints pass/scheme game to LSU as the pass game coordinator.   And LSU busting at the seam with a roster full of NFL WRs is a big part of it too.  Burrow looked pretty impressive out of the gates in Cincy without the pass game coordinator he was paired with for only one season.  

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SBBlue Veteran

SBBlue

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, CRA said:

yeah, I don't think Tannehill is special.  Derrick Henry has lead the NFL in rushing and rushing TDs the last 2 seasons.  Derrick Henry is special.  You remove Derrick Henry and I think Tannehill would be average.

 

 I agree Henry is far more special than Tannehill.  Kind of  like CMC and Darnold, actually.

Quote

 Joe Brady brought the Saints pass/scheme game to LSU as the pass game coordinator.   And LSU busting at the seam with a roster full of NFL WRs is a big part of it too.  

So what you're saying is, we need to bring in the Saints offense and load up on talented receivers and TE's.

Quote

Burrow looked pretty impressive out of the gates in Cincy without the pass game coordinator he was paired with for only one season.  

He did.  

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