Carolina Panthers Training Camp - Sunday Thread

[kungfoodude]

35 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

Williams didn't play much his first year and became a 2nd team all pro.  Moton didn't play much his first year and we franchised him.  If you're concerned about BC you must have worried about Williams in the 2015 preseason and Moton in the 2017 preseason.  

We don't even know how much BC is going to play this year.  

You must be constantly "concerned".  
 

This is a far worse OL than either of those two units. Hence the concern. This is easily a bottom 5 unit in franchise history.

Calm down. Once again, you are getting emotional about a discussion. This message board thing just may not be for you.

[kungfoodude]

44 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Yep and an unfortunate part because our team graded him as a better G than T. The only glimmer of hope is that Erving being dinged again and BC being limited to RT might be a sign that Moton may go LT and BC may start at RT. Scott playing RT today does dent that theory but maybe it’ll take a wee bit longer for BC to learn the nuances of RT and they don’t want to throw him to wolves yet.

That glimmer is just my own opinion which is lower in my probability that he should have gotten G reps with all the injuries today as that’s an easier path to contributing and makes a big assumption that Moton is LT. 

Yeah, it was strange to see the guys they rolled through. Not much of BC or Brown. They seem to be on the "Greg Little" part of the OL unit. 

Well, Daley at least appears to have ascended the ranks, once again. If we can get him to stay healthy maybe he could be an upgrade. 

[Basbear]

13 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Where have u seen this?

twatter posts and ask Zob, I believe he saw this as well. Im still not in panic mode. 

[Basbear]

20 hours ago, pantherclaw said:

Someone else that truly understands.

 

Rare isnt it??..

Edited August 9, 2021 by Basbear

[AU-panther]

4 hours ago, stbugs said:

 

I said day 2 because of course BC was taken at 70, right smack in the middle of day 2. Saying all rookies is silly because most day 3 rookies and undrafted players don’t even start. Day 1 and day 2 (lowers dramatically once you are late round 3/comp picks/early 4th). Not sure why you are only looking at tackles (you also probably missed that Niang opted out), since the team literally said they had him graded as a 2nd round guard (3rd round tackle) during the draft. I used all OL.

Here’s a quick list of the 5 starters I mentioned in the 2020 draft:

Hunt (37) started 11 games (at RT)

Cleveland (58) started 9 games (at RG even though listed as T for draft)

Lewis (69 one pick before BC) started 16 games

Jackson (75) started 16 games

Cushenberry (83) started 16 games

So, within 13 picks before and after BC’s slot there were 6 OL. Half of them started all 16 games. Also, in day 1, 6 of 7 drafted OL started at least 9 games and 5 of 7 started at least 12 games. The only one that didn’t start was Isaiah Wynn who basically didn’t even want to play football.

Acting like it’s rare that someone picked near him starts over vets is incorrect. Taking out the COVID opt-out (Niang) who had no chance to start, 12 of 16 OL taken in day 1/day 2 (including 2 comp picks) started at least half the year and most started a full year. It’s not rare for OL like BC to start, in fact most do.

Same discussion happened with Little and I went through the 2019 draft of OL around him and almost all of them started the entire year of at least half.

I said all rookies because my statement was not only intended for BC but also this expectation by many fans of all of our drafted players, including UDFAs.  I totally agree that is you want to go to smaller sample size and just look at 2nd and 3rd rounders then of course the expectation should still be somewhat higher. 

Its clear you are trying to prove a point that you made earlier but calling my statement false to prove yours correct when they are in fact two different statements is...

If you want to get specific about round that is why i decided to get specific and look at just tackles.  OTs tend to do get on the field a bit slower than OG.  

What they had him listed on the board as on some little promo piece is irrelevant.  Pretty clear so far he is spending most of his time at RT, he is a rookie, they aren't looking to develop him at two spots he has enough to learn at one spot.  Staff isn't worried about getting him on the field the quickest, they are worried about figuring out the best starting five, the best game day 8 and the best roster 9-10.

They might have had graded as a better G than T coming out but they might decide he is a better upgrade at RT but as a OG he might be similar to what we already have.

 

 

[AU-panther]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

I don’t care about proving myself right but let’s be real, your assertion about all rookie OL being starters has no worth unless you are talking about similar OL. That’s why I took a look at day 2 guys. BC was drafted in early round 3, which is right in the middle of day 2. When looking at the most similar 2020 OL picks to BC, he should be staring this year especially considering he has one of the easiest paths to playing time. Saying a 6th and 7th rounder won’t start is like saying BC should be a stud already because Wirfs was awesome. It might make you feel better about BC but it’s the same incorrect statement, when bounding it with realistic comps, that was made about Little. The only difference is that we’ve gotten 3 camps of Little now and he’s still having the same issues a bunch of us saw at the combine. BC hasn’t had enough time and I’m not even down on him yet. Like others in here, I’m worried and a bit disappointed that he hasn’t seemed to have shown any flashes or that he’s more talented than UDFAs and vets other teams didn’t really want.

Also, the team has talked about versatility a ton (Elflein and Erving both have played multiple positions) so no that promo piece (and other mentions about BC at G) weren’t just fluff. You should be a bit worried that BC is only getting time at RT where our longest term contract and best OL is currently sitting. He should be taking G reps from Tecklenberg who ironically is younger than BC. We graded him as a 2nd round G, which is well above Elflein, Miller, Tecklenberg and Daley would grade. Again, let’s be real. The team has already said they really didn’t draft him to be a LT and with Moton’s extension, we certainly didn’t draft him to be a RT backup. We drafted him to start at G early and maybe T later.

It has worth when I was making a broad statement that includes everyone from BC to David Moore, since people also seemed surprised Moore was let go which also happened recently, not to mention Brown.  We had people around here expecting 2/3 being opening day starters and the third being part of the 2 deep.  That was just unrealistic.

You are the one making my statement about just BC.

As far as versatility goes, it  is a bit overplayed around here.  Think about it on game day you usually only have 8 guys active a lot of times.  Every team has guys who can play LT/RT, G/C, G/T, not really that odd, just the coaches have talked about it so fans are running with the idea.

As far as BC goes the fact he was listed as T or G on the big board still doesn't change the fact they are probably going to have him focus on one position or the other, especially early in his development. 

Maybe they didn't draft him to start at G early and RT later.  Maybe they are thinking backup RT early and starting RT later.