This seems oddly familiar

[Icege]

41 minutes ago, Varking said:

On lunch at the moment so I am running out of time to reply but I can address the bottom part quickly:

Fields is currently go above and beyond what is expected from a rookie QB in terms of leadership and accountability. Fields doesn't need another first round QB to inspire him to go above and beyond. He is literally doing that for all to see. If you swapped Fields and Darnold stories I would be all over the Sam Darnold train. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Among the other stories about getting to the facility so early that he had to ask other players and staff where the light switches were at because he was getting there much earlier than everyone else. These aren't stories just being told like coach speak or organization speak, the kid is actually *showing* people the effort and work put in. Early in, late out. 

I took a break from this forum after the draft but I still keep up with local writers and everything posted on The Athletic. The praise Fields is getting as a leader already is coming from many different sources. And its not a story about him staying late, we have seen it many times now already. He is doing all this as a true rookie. Both a vocal leader and a leader who is leading via action. The kid brought his playbook with him on vacation after the draft. 

If I have missed Sam Darnold getting to the building before everyone else to work out, or staying after practice by himself to run and work out and study, then I acknowledge my mistake. Darnold has the talent to be a good player. We blame coaching, the talent around him, and the organization. The Bears don't have great coaches, they have one stud weapon on offense in Allen Robinson who doesn't even want to be there really, and the organization hasn't accomplished much since Urlacher retired. 

Fields is removing the what if scenarios of failure. We aren't going to be asking what if he just took practice more serious, what if he worked out more, what if he studied more, what if he was more of a vocal leader, etc. Justin doesn't need to be pushed by anybody else to work towards greatness. 

Maybe having Teddy around would have helped push Darnold a bit more?  Maybe a change of scenery is going to push Darnold to be better? This is his fourth year in the NFL. Up to this point he hasn't had to look over his shoulder. If he was healthy he was "the guy". He has played 38 games and has thrown 39 interceptions. The one major thing the Jets didn't try was giving him a real threat of competition where the backup could take his job before the season started. The kid needs to be pushed at this point because he has been coddled enough.

Darnold was just as hyped up his first offseason as well. This isn't exclusive to Fields. As far as the Bears go, they might not have great coaches but they have significantly better coaches than the Jets did during Darnold's time there. As far as supporting cast, while Robinson is the only "stud" of the supporting cast, he's got some pretty damn good talent surrounding him in Jimmy Graham, Jesse James, Cole Kmet, Dazz Newsome, Khalil Herbert, James Daniels, and Cody Whitehair. Compare that to Darnold's rookie year when his only "stud" was Robby. His RB? Bilal Powell. TE? Chris Herndon. OL? He had a declining Kelvin Beachum and Brian Winters to talk about. When we speak about accomplishments... what in the Hell have the Jets accomplished besides finding new ways to fail? Hell, at least the Bears had some success to talk about going back to Urlacher. Teddy was also already around for Darnold in NYJ his rookie season (along with Josh McCown). There's literally nothing to support the idea that he didn't work hard, didn't take practice seriously, didn't study enough, wasn't enough of a vocal leader, etc. 

We get that you're high on Fields and you're happy that he's doing things right. That's great! However, to imply that Darnold was not putting in the work as well and giving Adam Gase a pass while preparing to blame Matt Nagy is incredibly biased. "The one major thing the Jets didn't try was giving him a real threat of competition where the backup could take his job before the season started," is an absolutely ridiculous statement to make though. They didn't give him any major help, so what would have competition mattered? Jamison Crowder and the shell of Le'Veon Bell were help? Breshard Perriman and George Fant were help? Joe Flacco was brought in as well, and while Flacco was well past his best years that's still a presence in the QB room to look out for.

Sam Darnold didn't need competition and he didn't need tweets proving his work ethic. He needed a competent coaching staff to help develop the youngest player to start since the NFL-AFL merger in 1970 and talent to be surrounded by, which he got neither.

You can be happy for Fields without disparaging Darnold.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Icege

[Mr. Scot]

50 minutes ago, Varking said:

If I have missed Sam Darnold getting to the building before everyone else to work out, or staying after practice by himself to run and work out and study, then I acknowledge my mistake. 

You have.

It's been reported multiple times.

[Varking]

10 minutes ago, Icege said:

Darnold was just as hyped up his first offseason as well. This isn't exclusive to Fields. As far as the Bears go, they might not have great coaches but they have significantly better coaches than the Jets did during Darnold's time there. As far as supporting cast, while Robinson is the only "stud" of the supporting cast, he's got some pretty damn good talent surrounding him in Jimmy Graham, Jesse James, Cole Kmet, Dazz Newsome, Khalil Herbert, James Daniels, and Cody Whitehair. Compare that to Darnold's rookie year when his only "stud" was Robby. His RB? Bilal Powell. TE? Chris Herndon. OL? He had a declining Kelvin Beachum and Brian Winters to talk about. When we speak about accomplishments... what in the Hell have the Jets accomplished besides finding new ways to fail? Hell, at least the Bears had some success to talk about going back to Urlacher. Teddy was also already around for Darnold in NYJ his rookie season (along with Josh McCown). There's literally nothing to support the idea that he didn't work hard, didn't take practice seriously, didn't study enough, wasn't enough of a vocal leader, etc. 

We get that you're high on Fields and you're happy that he's doing things right. That's great! However, to imply that Darnold was not putting in the work as well and giving Adam Gase a pass while preparing to blame Matt Nagy is incredibly biased. "The one major thing the Jets didn't try was giving him a real threat of competition where the backup could take his job before the season started," is an absolutely ridiculous statement to make though. They didn't give him any major help, so what would have competition mattered? Jamison Crowder and the shell of Le'Veon Bell were help? Breshard Perriman and George Fant were help? Joe Flacco was brought in as well, and while Flacco was well past his best years that's still a presence in the QB room to look out for.

Sam Darnold didn't need competition and he didn't need tweets proving his work ethic. He needed a competent coaching staff to help develop the youngest player to start since the NFL-AFL merger in 1970 and talent to be surrounded by, which he got neither.

You can be happy for Fields without disparaging Darnold.

Just a quick look at these and I see all the same things: Talk. These examples didn't show him staying late when nobody else is there anymore or showing up so early the lights aren't on and he's the only one in the building. I don't see him putting in the work outside of normal business hours likes Fields has. You are also implying I am saying that he didn't put in any work or that he didn't study at all. I suggested he could have done more. I've also repeatedly said I believe in Darnold. I have also been happy about having him here since the trade. 

The Jets did not give him real competition at the position. Also, I have NEVER given Adam Gase a pass. I also haven't prepared to blame Matt Nagy at all. That is something another user suggested. I think there's a bit of confusion here between my replies to you and my replies to another user. 

[Varking]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

You have.

It's been reported multiple times.

I believe you Mr. Scot. I just hadn't, and still haven't seen those myself. I am not saying it didn't happen. I just hadn't seen it. 

[kungfoodude]

24 minutes ago, Icege said:

Darnold was just as hyped up his first offseason as well. This isn't exclusive to Fields. As far as the Bears go, they might not have great coaches but they have significantly better coaches than the Jets did during Darnold's time there. As far as supporting cast, while Robinson is the only "stud" of the supporting cast, he's got some pretty damn good talent surrounding him in Jimmy Graham, Jesse James, Cole Kmet, Dazz Newsome, Khalil Herbert, James Daniels, and Cody Whitehair. Compare that to Darnold's rookie year when his only "stud" was Robby. His RB? Bilal Powell. TE? Chris Herndon. OL? He had a declining Kelvin Beachum and Brian Winters to talk about. When we speak about accomplishments... what in the Hell have the Jets accomplished besides finding new ways to fail? Hell, at least the Bears had some success to talk about going back to Urlacher. Teddy was also already around for Darnold in NYJ his rookie season (along with Josh McCown). There's literally nothing to support the idea that he didn't work hard, didn't take practice seriously, didn't study enough, wasn't enough of a vocal leader, etc. 

We get that you're high on Fields and you're happy that he's doing things right. That's great! However, to imply that Darnold was not putting in the work as well and giving Adam Gase a pass while preparing to blame Matt Nagy is incredibly biased. "The one major thing the Jets didn't try was giving him a real threat of competition where the backup could take his job before the season started," is an absolutely ridiculous statement to make though. They didn't give him any major help, so what would have competition mattered? Jamison Crowder and the shell of Le'Veon Bell were help? Breshard Perriman and George Fant were help? Joe Flacco was brought in as well, and while Flacco was well past his best years that's still a presence in the QB room to look out for.

Sam Darnold didn't need competition and he didn't need tweets proving his work ethic. He needed a competent coaching staff to help develop the youngest player to start since the NFL-AFL merger in 1970 and talent to be surrounded by, which he got neither.

You can be happy for Fields without disparaging Darnold.

I tend to believe that although Darnold was largely set up to fail by a bad coaching staff, most of his issues are between his ears. If he struggles/fails here, I think that will end up firming up my belief that is the case. If he is the ultra rare case of a bust to success story, I will firmly believe, as many seem to, that the Jets staff and situation was historically bad. 

I tend to agree with Varking that I would have probably still drafted Fields(or Slater) at 8. Either of those situations probably helps us as a franchise more than Horn. That is nothing against Horn at all, just more what I value over CB. 

[kungfoodude]

18 minutes ago, Varking said:

Just a quick look at these and I see all the same things: Talk. These examples didn't show him staying late when nobody else is there anymore or showing up so early the lights aren't on and he's the only one in the building. I don't see him putting in the work outside of normal business hours likes Fields has. You are also implying I am saying that he didn't put in any work or that he didn't study at all. I suggested he could have done more. I've also repeatedly said I believe in Darnold. I have also been happy about having him here since the trade. 

The Jets did not give him real competition at the position. Also, I have NEVER given Adam Gase a pass. I also haven't prepared to blame Matt Nagy at all. That is something another user suggested. I think there's a bit of confusion here between my replies to you and my replies to another user. 

One thing that impressed me was Graham mentioning Russell Wilson when he described him. I know that the bulk of Panther fans have a huge amount of butthurt about Wilson but that guy has built a very solid reputation for being a high work ethic/high achieving player. Not sure he will reach that kind of lofty praise but that is certainly a hell of a comparison. 

The truth is, we aren't going to know what Fields or "Darnold 2.0" are until the games start getting played. In a few months, these comparisons will have ample data to support each position that isn't anecdotal. 

Edited August 7, 2021 by kungfoodude

[OldhamA]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

I tend to believe that although Darnold was largely set up to fail by a bad coaching staff, most of his issues are between his ears. If he struggles/fails here, I think that will end up firming up my belief that is the case. If he is the ultra rare case of a bust to success story, I will firmly believe, as many seem to, that the Jets staff and situation was historically bad. 

I tend to agree with Varking that I would have probably still drafted Fields(or Slater) at 8. Either of those situations probably helps us as a franchise more than Horn. That is nothing against Horn at all, just more what I value over CB. 

Rhule wants to play an aggressive man defence. You can't do that without CBs who can take away their man in single coverage.

Horn provides us the ability to do that - in a pass happy league, CBs have become extraordinarily valuable. This isn't your Ron Rivera / John Fox era where you could hide CBs in zone behind a great Dline. You need both with how slanted the rules are in 2021. 

 

[OldhamA]

On 8/5/2021 at 3:50 AM, hepcat said:

Darnold has played 3 seasons in the NFL, and they were all bad. His statistics are bad up and down. The team that drafted him dumped him. So yes, I would say the collective “we” thinks he is pretty bad.

What’s good about him? The fact he isn’t Teddy Bridgewater? Because that’s about it. Darnold is still living on hope and potential in his 4th season. Very rarely do QBs that have failed like him magically morph into a good player. If he does, great! I’d be very happy if he plays well. But I’m not counting on it.

Given the risk Darnold comes with, already having 3 bad seasons under his belt, this team needed to bring in another starting option in case Darnold fails. They could have added a 1st round QB to compete with him. Or brought in a veteran FA. ANY competition for him at all. Hell they could have kept that asshole Teddy Bridgewater out of spite. Instead they have a former XFL QB and another massive draft bust that I want to forget this team ever had on the roster.

Bottom line is, if Darnold fails, this staff deserves to be eviscerated. Because that QB room might be the worst in the NFL.

Honestly, Sam Darnold is a lump of clay. He played LB in High School until his Senior season - he was so physically talented that he was ranked a 4 star and earned a scholarship from a major College programme (the guy that recruited him, the DC, actually wanted him to play LB at USC!)

He started 2 years in College. He then went to a dysfunctional franchise with one of the worst professional staffs ever assembled. He didn't even have a dedicated QB Coach. He's as raw a professional QB as you're likely to see. 

With all that he's still only 24 - and as I read earlier this week, if you put his best 20 plays in the NFL on a 'sizzle' tape they stack up with anyone. 

He now has a well respected QB coach to fix his mechanical flaws (footwork!), a good supporting cast of skill position players and a hot commodity OC calling plays for him. We should be excited as fans rather than wringing our hands that we didn't get the 21 year old we fell in love with pre-Draft. 

 

TL;DR it's a calculated gamble. It's not like we've got a Super Bowl contending roster sat here waiting for a QB - we're just two years removed from the awful roster Hurney / Rivera assembled. Best case scenario - he turns into another Josh Allen redemption story. Worst case scenario - we go again next year. 

[OldhamA]

18 hours ago, Varking said:

Was this franchise ready for a rookie QB who is basically outworking everyone else in camp and show the entire roster accountability starts with him? If Justin Fields fails in the NFL it isn't going to be for a lack of effort, talent or preparedness. The kids saying and doing all the right things. 

Surely you're better than to fall for the pre-season media bumf, right?

[Panthers Rhule]

I've visited a Bears fan site to check up on the Fields' situation. The organization is definitely hyping him up and that's to be expected since they traded up for him and the last QB they traded up for didn't work out too well for them. As I read through posts though some obvious things begin to stick out and some of their fans are pointing this out too. He's being hyped up but without a lot of details about what is so great. They mention work ethic a lot, running skills and strong arm. Not a lot about actual great plays. As I kept reading through posts other things which tell a much different story than what the hype would have you to believe. Dalton is the number one hands down. At this time, Fields isn't considered a threat to take his spot any time soon. He makes an occasional great pass followed by a lot of bad passes, incompletions and interceptions including pick sixes. Drives stalled by sacks after holding the ball too long. He threw an interception on a shuttle pass. From what I've read and some fans are pointing out that it's a lot of hype but his actual play isn't that good yet. Here's just one example from a practice this week. 

Don't expect to see Fields starting any time soon unless something happens to Dalton. Andy Dalton is firmly ahead of Fields on the depth chart. 

[Davidson Deac II]

On 8/3/2021 at 5:35 PM, hepcat said:

If Fields is a star and Darnold bombs this board is going to be a f*cking train wreck this season

If Darnold bombs, this board will be a trainwreck regardless.  Fields being good will only make it worse.  

[Moo Daeng]

20 minutes ago, Panthers Rhule said:

I've visited a Bears fan site to check up on the Fields' situation. The organization is definitely hyping him up and that's to be expected since they traded up for him and the last QB they traded up for didn't work out too well for them. As I read through posts though some obvious things begin to stick out and some of their fans are pointing this out too. He's being hyped up but without a lot of details about what is so great. They mention work ethic a lot, running skills and strong arm. Not a lot about actual great plays. As I kept reading through posts other things which tell a much different story than what the hype would have you to believe. Dalton is the number one hands down. At this time, Fields isn't considered a threat to take his spot any time soon. He makes an occasional great pass followed by a lot of bad passes, incompletions and interceptions including pick sixes. Drives stalled by sacks after holding the ball too long. He threw an interception on a shuttle pass. From what I've read and some fans are pointing out that it's a lot of hype but his actual play isn't that good yet. Here's just one example from a practice this week. 

Don't expect to see Fields starting any time soon unless something happens to Dalton. Andy Dalton is firmly ahead of Fields on the depth chart. 

Interesting but not surprising that we aren't getting the full story here.

[Panthers Rhule]

11 minutes ago, My Chuck Dont Matter said:

Offensive Rookie of the Year

Yeah that's nice. The problem is that every one of those throws but 1 was to his first read. Take away that and he's looking to run the ball. Even the one play where he hit the check down he was about to run and saw him last second. He does have a nice deep pass though but until he learns how to hit his 2nd and 3rd targets consistently, he will have problems. That's why so many teams passed on him. Including us. 

Edited August 7, 2021 by Panthers Rhule

[mrcompletely11]

30 minutes ago, My Chuck Dont Matter said:

Offensive Rookie of the Year

thats considered "going off"?   Godalmighty. 

 

I mean for starters I like the kid and would have been happy selecting him but this video doesnt do much to move the needle.  I there is no pass rush, secondly he just stares at his first read on 80% of those plays.

Edited August 7, 2021 by mrcompletely11