This seems oddly familiar

[Varking]

9 hours ago, 1usctrojan said:

I normally don’t like to post on these type of discussions, but I honestly want to know…..was this franchise ready to take a young rookie QB in the draft?  A QB  that played in elite college programs loaded with top offensive lines and best offensive weapons in CFB?  Considering all I’ve read here about the quality (or lack of) the current offensive line….do you think the Panthers were in a better position to develop a young QB than all the other franchises ahead of you?  If not, how are you different from the Jets, Bengals, etc.?
 

Your franchise signed a QB who has already played behind one of the worst lines I’ve ever seen at the pro level, it’s not going to be anything he hasn’t already played behind….but this time, with much, much better weapons.  Build your line, and if Sam plays well, maybe you get that 2nd round draft pick back you can bundle to go up in the draft.  Then you get Watson or one of the newest can’t miss QBs.

Was this franchise ready for a rookie QB who is basically outworking everyone else in camp and show the entire roster accountability starts with him? If Justin Fields fails in the NFL it isn't going to be for a lack of effort, talent or preparedness. The kids saying and doing all the right things. 

As for how are we different than the other teams in front of us? You already pointed it out. How many teams in front of us would be giving any rookie QB better weapons than DJ Moore, Robbie Anderson and CMC as your 1-2-3? 

Look at the Chargers last year. In 2019 the Chargers line was awful due to injuries. In 2020 they were awful due to way more than that. However, they drafted Justin Herbert with the intent on letting him sit behind Taylor. What did Herbert end up doing? Arguable the best rookie QB season ever. Did he have a better set of weapons than us? I don't believe so. 

As for Darnold... yes he has played behind bad lines and with lesser talent but he also hasn't really had one good season yet in his three years. He has almost as many turnovers as scores and last I checked he is career under 60% completions. Oddly enough I think he can be the guy here anyway but I wouldn't have passed on a QB in this draft if we had a shot at Lawrence, Fields, Wilson or Lance. 

[NanuqoftheNorth]

On 8/3/2021 at 3:04 PM, TheMostInterestingMan said:

Many on here will simply compare Fields to Darnold. But it’s Darnold + Horn as a collective that we should be comparing 

^^^ Panthers killing two birds with one stone.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

On 8/4/2021 at 8:25 PM, Mr. Scot said:

Personally, I'm thrilled because the alternative could have been much worse.

It was.

[TheMostInterestingMan]

1 hour ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

^^^ Panthers killing two birds with one stone.

Hopefully. I don’t know if this works out or not but I do support the move. I think it was a good trade and allowed us to theoretically upgrade two needs. But Darnold has to work out and he honestly has to do so this season.

[glenwo2]

13 hours ago, Varking said:

Was this franchise ready for a rookie QB who is basically outworking everyone else in camp and show the entire roster accountability starts with him? If Justin Fields fails in the NFL it isn't going to be for a lack of effort, talent or preparedness. The kids saying and doing all the right things. 

As for how are we different than the other teams in front of us? You already pointed it out. How many teams in front of us would be giving any rookie QB better weapons than DJ Moore, Robbie Anderson and CMC as your 1-2-3? 

Look at the Chargers last year. In 2019 the Chargers line was awful due to injuries. In 2020 they were awful due to way more than that. However, they drafted Justin Herbert with the intent on letting him sit behind Taylor. What did Herbert end up doing? Arguable the best rookie QB season ever. Did he have a better set of weapons than us? I don't believe so. 

As for Darnold... yes he has played behind bad lines and with lesser talent but he also hasn't really had one good season yet in his three years. He has almost as many turnovers as scores and last I checked he is career under 60% completions. Oddly enough I think he can be the guy here anyway but I wouldn't have passed on a QB in this draft if we had a shot at Lawrence, Fields, Wilson or Lance. 

Except the Panthers could not predict the future as far as Fields dropping.  

It's easy to play Hindsight-101 here after the fact but if the Panthers did not pull the trigger on the Darnold deal and Fields did not fall in the Draft, then the Panthers would've been sitting there with their thumbs up their collective asses wondering what happened.   

Then Panthers management HERE in this forum would've gotten eviscerated.

Edited August 7, 2021 by glenwo2

[Varking]

7 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

Except the Panthers could not predict the future as far as Fields dropping.  

It's easy to play Hindsight-101 here after the fact but if the Panthers did not pull the trigger on the Darnold deal and Fields did not fall in the Draft, then the Panthers would've been sitting there with their thumbs up their collective asses wondering what happened.   

Then Panthers management HERE in this forum would've gotten eviscerated.

It didn't just need to be Fields. It could have been any of the Lance, Fields, Wilson, Lawrence and most people here would talk themselves into accepting Mac Jones as a fine pick if any were available. Two of that group was when we picked. Hell, I would have been ok with *still* drafting Fields with Darnold on the roster. Having Fields around might have seen Darnold take his studying and working out to a level Will Grier would certainly not push him to. 

And I want to be clear... I like Darnold. I do believe this is the best situation he has been in, during his now fourth year in the NFL. I just see Justin Fields as a far superior prospect then Sam Darnold and despite Darnold being in the league for three whole years he is still just a prospect because he hasn't really done much good in the NFL yet. We are still projecting and hoping he will finally take a step forward. 

[1usctrojan]

18 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

Except the Panthers could not predict the future as far as Fields dropping.  

It's easy to play Hindsight-101 here after the fact but if the Panthers did not pull the trigger on the Darnold deal and Fields did not fall in the Draft, then the Panthers would've been sitting there with their thumbs up their collective asses wondering what happened.   

Then Panthers management HERE in this forum would've gotten eviscerated.

I wasn’t even going to address this, but remember all the hoopla surrounding Sam and how he was looking in practice for the Jets his rookie year?  Same stuff they’re saying about Fields.  Leadership, first player in and last to leave, spectacular throws.  The joint practice with the Bills, and the praise for Sams’ skills by several of their defensive players?  Yeah, there’s UTube videos on that.

Found one….https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2018/08/14/josh-norman-raves-about-jets-rookie-qb-sam-darnold-this-little-kid-is-not-making-mistakes/

Too early to crown, or downplay any rookie QB at this point.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by 1usctrojan

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, 1usctrojan said:

Too early to crown, or downplay any rookie QB at this point.

It always is.

(not that it ever seems to stop anybody)

[glenwo2]

20 minutes ago, Varking said:

It didn't just need to be Fields. It could have been any of the Lance, Fields, Wilson, Lawrence and most people here would talk themselves into accepting Mac Jones as a fine pick if any were available. Two of that group was when we picked. Hell, I would have been ok with *still* drafting Fields with Darnold on the roster. Having Fields around might have seen Darnold take his studying and working out to a level Will Grier would certainly not push him to. 

And I want to be clear... I like Darnold. I do believe this is the best situation he has been in, during his now fourth year in the NFL. I just see Justin Fields as a far superior prospect then Sam Darnold and despite Darnold being in the league for three whole years he is still just a prospect because he hasn't really done much good in the NFL yet. We are still projecting and hoping he will finally take a step forward. 

 

I'm sorry.....WHAT?

So....knowing he only has 2 seasons to prove himself with the Panthers (combined with the fact that he has been working out like a madman, plus earning his teammates Respect from the get-go) isn't enough MOTIVATION?

You want to have a QB on the sidelines and have the crowd start chanting his name when Sam struggles(and believe me...ALL QBs struggle from time to time)?   Oh yeah...that would've done WONDERS for his confidence being a part of that fiasco.   smh.

Him knowing that HE is the guy, is why he will play LOOSE and RELAXED instead of being scared to make a mistake because of some hotshot Rookie on the bench eyeing his job.

[Varking]

10 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

 

I'm sorry.....WHAT?

So....knowing he only has 2 seasons to prove himself with the Panthers (combined with the fact that he has been working out like a madman, plus earning his teammates Respect from the get-go) isn't enough MOTIVATION?

You want to have a QB on the sidelines and have the crowd start chanting his name when Sam struggles(and believe me...ALL QBs struggle from time to time)?   Oh yeah...that would've done WONDERS for his confidence being a part of that fiasco.   smh.

Him knowing that HE is the guy, is why he will play LOOSE and RELAXED instead of being scared to make a mistake because of some hotshot Rookie on the bench eyeing his job.

He knew he was the guy in New York. Did him playing loose and relaxed in New York help him put up great stats or many victories? Are you implying he can only be successful and play loose and relaxed if he  doesn't have competition?

Did Alex Smith struggle because they drafted a QB to replace him? What about Rodgers in Green Bay? If competition with a rookie QB when you are going into year 4 is what makes you scared then we are going to have a lot of issues with his confidence this year in general. I don't believe Sam Darnold is as soft as you are making him out to be, mentally. 

[Icege]

14 hours ago, Varking said:

Was this franchise ready for a rookie QB who is basically outworking everyone else in camp and show the entire roster accountability starts with him? If Justin Fields fails in the NFL it isn't going to be for a lack of effort, talent or preparedness. The kids saying and doing all the right things. 

It sounds like if Fields fails, you're blaming coaching. In that case, is Adam Gase a better coach than Matt Nagy then?

I hope that's not the case

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/10/jets-adam-gase-ripped-for-putting-sam-darnold-back-in

Quote

Darnold, who ran for a sweet 46-yard TD on the team’s first possession, left the game in the first quarter with what looked like a shoulder injury after he was slammed to the ground on a sack. It was so bad that he went right to the locker room to get looked at.

Darnold later returned to the sideline and Gase decided to throw him right back in the game, on a third-and-five for the Jets.

What happened next? Darnold got slammed to the turf again on a big sack. He was OK and stayed in the game but still, maybe wait to put him back in on a different play when the defense isn’t going to be coming after the QB?

NFL Twitter couldn’t believe Gase’s decision:

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by Icege

[Varking]

5 minutes ago, Icege said:

It sounds like if Fields fails, you're blaming coaching. In that case, is Adam Gase a better coach than Matt Nagy then?

I don't believe he is going to fail. I think he will be a 10+ year player in this league. And we already know that Nagy is a better coach than Gase. 

[Icege]

2 minutes ago, Varking said:

I don't believe he is going to fail. I think he will be a 10+ year player in this league. And we already know that Nagy is a better coach than Gase. 

I'm not saying that you're planning on him to fail, I very much remember him being your favourite QB prospect in the draft.

However, with what you're advocating for here (taking Fields @ #8 after already trading a 2nd for the #3 overall pick from 2018), it sounds like you don't believe that Sam Darnold has the effort, talent, or work ethic to be the team's QB. This context is further reinforced by statements like this:

Quote

Having Fields around might have seen Darnold take his studying and working out to a level Will Grier would certainly not push him to. 

Fields doesn't need another first round QB on the roster to inspire him to work, but Darnold does? Do you see how these statements can give the impression that I'm pointing out?

[Varking]

1 minute ago, Icege said:

I'm not saying that you're planning on him to fail, I very much remember him being your favourite QB prospect in the draft.

However, with what you're advocating for here (taking Fields @ #8 after already trading a 2nd for the #3 overall pick from 2018), it sounds like you don't believe that Sam Darnold has the effort, talent, or work ethic to be the team's QB. This context is further reinforced by statements like this:

Fields doesn't need another first round QB on the roster to inspire him to work, but Darnold does? Do you see how these statements can give the impression that I'm pointing out?

On lunch at the moment so I am running out of time to reply but I can address the bottom part quickly:

Fields is currently go above and beyond what is expected from a rookie QB in terms of leadership and accountability. Fields doesn't need another first round QB to inspire him to go above and beyond. He is literally doing that for all to see. If you swapped Fields and Darnold stories I would be all over the Sam Darnold train. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Among the other stories about getting to the facility so early that he had to ask other players and staff where the light switches were at because he was getting there much earlier than everyone else. These aren't stories just being told like coach speak or organization speak, the kid is actually *showing* people the effort and work put in. Early in, late out. 

I took a break from this forum after the draft but I still keep up with local writers and everything posted on The Athletic. The praise Fields is getting as a leader already is coming from many different sources. And its not a story about him staying late, we have seen it many times now already. He is doing all this as a true rookie. Both a vocal leader and a leader who is leading via action. The kid brought his playbook with him on vacation after the draft. 

If I have missed Sam Darnold getting to the building before everyone else to work out, or staying after practice by himself to run and work out and study, then I acknowledge my mistake. Darnold has the talent to be a good player. We blame coaching, the talent around him, and the organization. The Bears don't have great coaches, they have one stud weapon on offense in Allen Robinson who doesn't even want to be there really, and the organization hasn't accomplished much since Urlacher retired. 

Fields is removing the what if scenarios of failure. We aren't going to be asking what if he just took practice more serious, what if he worked out more, what if he studied more, what if he was more of a vocal leader, etc. Justin doesn't need to be pushed by anybody else to work towards greatness. 

Maybe having Teddy around would have helped push Darnold a bit more?  Maybe a change of scenery is going to push Darnold to be better? This is his fourth year in the NFL. Up to this point he hasn't had to look over his shoulder. If he was healthy he was "the guy". He has played 38 games and has thrown 39 interceptions. The one major thing the Jets didn't try was giving him a real threat of competition where the backup could take his job before the season started. The kid needs to be pushed at this point because he has been coddled enough.