This seems oddly familiar

[ForJimmy]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

He's definitely got a weird sort of "hero worship" thing for Tepper, no doubt.

And I mean, that's fine. By all means, he can be admired for his accomplishments if one chooses to do so. But acting like he picks the players, sets the scheme or does any of the other stuff that falls to the coaches and front office is just delusional.

Yeah if that was the case he was hire a much cheaper coach to be his puppet…

[SizzleBuzz]

55 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

The Panthers organization is a business, but football is a game / sport.

Sports require coaching, scouting and talent evaluation. David Tepper does none of those things, and is in fact not qualified to do them (something he freely admits).

That's why, as Matt Rhule stated, "he leaves the football to us", with "us" being Rhule, Fitterer, Morgan and their people.

I get that you want it to be true, but it isn't, and all the wishing in the world won't change that.

And sorry, but "who does (whomever) report to" isn't a clever comeback. It's basically just an admission that you've got nothing else to come back with.

There is a single checkbook funding football operations, Tepper's checkbook.  

Nobody is suggesting Tepper's making decisions  on some backup DB, not at all...

...but if you think he isn't a party to and ultimately approving big/expensive decisions like bringing in Teddy, exiting Teddy, bringing in Sam, signing Moton, etc -- you're deluded.  

As for the chain of "reporting", you have consistently held Fitterer out to be a "traditional GM"...LOL.

Debating "traditional" is moot because Fitty isn't even the GM -- Rhule has that job!

 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by SizzleBuzz

[hepcat]

3 hours ago, glenwo2 said:

What's this "We" Bulls--t?

Speak for yourself, buddy. 

Darnold has played 3 seasons in the NFL, and they were all bad. His statistics are bad up and down. The team that drafted him dumped him. So yes, I would say the collective “we” thinks he is pretty bad.

What’s good about him? The fact he isn’t Teddy Bridgewater? Because that’s about it. Darnold is still living on hope and potential in his 4th season. Very rarely do QBs that have failed like him magically morph into a good player. If he does, great! I’d be very happy if he plays well. But I’m not counting on it.

Given the risk Darnold comes with, already having 3 bad seasons under his belt, this team needed to bring in another starting option in case Darnold fails. They could have added a 1st round QB to compete with him. Or brought in a veteran FA. ANY competition for him at all. Hell they could have kept that asshole Teddy Bridgewater out of spite. Instead they have a former XFL QB and another massive draft bust that I want to forget this team ever had on the roster.

Bottom line is, if Darnold fails, this staff deserves to be eviscerated. Because that QB room might be the worst in the NFL.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, SizzleBuzz said:

There is a single checkbook funding football operations, Tepper's checkbook.  

Nobody is suggesting Tepper's making decisions  on some backup DB, not at all...

...but if you think he isn't a party to and ultimately approving big/expensive decisions like bringing in Teddy, exiting Teddy, bringing in Sam, signing Moton, etc -- you're deluded.  

As for the chain of "reporting", you have consistently held Fitterer out to be a "traditional GM"...LOL.

Debating "traditional" is moot because Fitty isn't even the GM -- Rhule has that job!

Sadly, wrong again. Having full control isn't what makes a GM "traditional". Having a scouting and personnel background is.

Fitterer is absolutely a traditional GM. His background is in scouting and talent evaluation, and that's exactly what Rhule wanted because doing both the personnel and the coaching is just too much for one man to handle.

What Tepper wanted was a non-traditional GM, i.e. a guy with an analytics background rather than a scouting background. Hence, why he brought in the candidates he did. But in the end, he deferred to Rhule and got a traditional guy instead.

As to Rhule being technically "over" Fitterer, that's not new either. Back in the 70s, 80s and even 90s there were plenty of head coaches who sat at the top of the food chain. Heck, the team where Scott Fitterer cut his teeth has been doing it that way since they hired Pete Carroll.

And again, no David Tepper doesn't drive or dictate personnel decisions in any way. Rhule has said it, Fitterer said it, Gantt has confirmed it and even Tepper himself has acknowledged that he doesn't have the skill set.

So sorry dude but there's no newfangled method to the Panthers structure. They're doing what's been done for decades by teams around the league, and happily with an owner who understands he needs to back off and let the football people do their jobs.

Personally, I'm thrilled because the alternative could have been much worse.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Mr. Scot

[SizzleBuzz]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Sadly, wrong again. Having full control isn't what makes a GM "traditional". Having a scouting and personnel background is.

Fitterer is absolutely a traditional GM. His background is in scouting and talent evaluation, and that's exactly what Rhule wanted because doing both the personnel and the coaching is just too much for one man to handle.

What Tepper wanted was a non-traditional GM, i.e. a guy with an analytics background rather than a scouting background. Hence, why he brought in the candidates he did. But in the end, he deferred to Rhule and got a traditional guy instead.

As to Rhule being technically "over" Fitterer, that's not new either. Back in the 70s, 80s and even 90s there were plenty of head coaches who sat at the top of the food chain. Heck, the team where Scott Fitterer cut his teeth has been doing it that way since they hired Pete Carroll.

And again, no David Tepper doesn't drive or dictate personnel decisions in any way. Rhule has said it, Fitterer said it, Gantt has confirmed it and even Tepper himself has acknowledged that he doesn't have the skill set.

So sorry dude but there's no newfangled method to the Panthers structure. They're doing what's been done for decades by teams around the league, and happily with an owner who understands he needs to back off and let the football people do their jobs.

Personally, I'm thrilled because the alternative could have been much worse.

Rhule is the GM...

...like you said, he's the same as Belichick.

At best Fitterer is Director of Player Personnel (like Caserio).

 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by SizzleBuzz

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, SizzleBuzz said:

Rhule is the GM...

...like you said, he's the same as Belichick.

At best Fitterer is Director of Player Personnel (like Caserio).

So you've given up on the whole "Appaloosa Model, Tepper runs everything" schtick and you're going with this now, eh?

Okay, but still wrong.

Rhule himself has said that he isn't a "run everything" guy. He acknowledged that Fitterer ran the Draft ("masterfully" he said in fact) and free agency.

You can pretty easily look up the quotes yourself, or take the even easier route and just rewatch Panthers confidential. It's all there.

[SizzleBuzz]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

So you've given up on the whole "Appaloosa Model, Tepper runs everything" schtick and you're going with this now, eh?

You're either dreaming, or dishonest...

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, SizzleBuzz said:

You're either dreaming, or dishonest...

Neither, I'm afraid.

You were wrong, dude. It happens. Let it go and move on.

[SizzleBuzz]

17 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

20 minutes ago, SizzleBuzz said:

You're either dreaming, or dishonest...

Neither, I'm afraid.

Good ol' Mr. Cut & Paste...

...you know it's the latter -- own up to it.

Edited August 5, 2021 by SizzleBuzz

[glenwo2]

21 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

He's definitely got a weird sort of "hero worship" thing for Tepper, no doubt.

And I mean, that's fine. By all means, he can be admired for his accomplishments if one chooses to do so. But acting like he picks the players, sets the scheme or does any of the other stuff that falls to the coaches and front office is just delusional.

I'm beginning to wonder if Sizzle may in fact either be Tepper himself or someone related....

[glenwo2]

20 hours ago, hepcat said:

Darnold has played 3 seasons in the NFL, and they were all bad. His statistics are bad up and down. The team that drafted him dumped him. So yes, I would say the collective “we” thinks he is pretty bad.

What’s good about him? The fact he isn’t Teddy Bridgewater? Because that’s about it. Darnold is still living on hope and potential in his 4th season. Very rarely do QBs that have failed like him magically morph into a good player. If he does, great! I’d be very happy if he plays well. But I’m not counting on it.

Given the risk Darnold comes with, already having 3 bad seasons under his belt, this team needed to bring in another starting option in case Darnold fails. They could have added a 1st round QB to compete with him. Or brought in a veteran FA. ANY competition for him at all. Hell they could have kept that asshole Teddy Bridgewater out of spite. Instead they have a former XFL QB and another massive draft bust that I want to forget this team ever had on the roster.

Bottom line is, if Darnold fails, this staff deserves to be eviscerated. Because that QB room might be the worst in the NFL.

All bad because of Sam?  Or all bad because the team around him sucked donkey balls?

Also, I'll repeat what I said in that OTHER thread ("Sam Darnold owns his mistakes....") as a response to your "Sam is a bad QB" :

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nobody who throws more TDs than INTs on that version of the Jets the past 3 seasons should be considered a bad QB.   It was basically him on an island trying to turn chicken poo into chicken salad. 

Did you know he had no QB coach there?    No you probably didn't.

 

Now he has actual coaching so we will see what develops with him.  

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, you assuming that EVERYONE has the same OPINION that you have is ridiculous.

I get what you're trying to say but don't make it sound like everyone here echos your sentiments with the "WE" crap.

Everyone does NOT share you viewpoint.   You need to realize that the Panthers, this board, and the world does not revolve around what you say or do.

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by glenwo2

[Ivan The Awesome]

I wish nothing but the best for him. If he lights it up, so be it. Not gonna be mad at him at all. 

 

 

The stigma that will come to  this team on the other hand is gonna be a little hard to handle not from our own fans but the rest of the NFL laughing at us for passing up on him. Oh well ce la vie. 

[Icege]

On 8/4/2021 at 10:50 PM, hepcat said:

Darnold has played 3 seasons in the NFL, and they were all bad. His statistics are bad up and down. The team that drafted him dumped him. So yes, I would say the collective “we” thinks he is pretty bad.

What’s good about him? The fact he isn’t Teddy Bridgewater? Because that’s about it. Darnold is still living on hope and potential in his 4th season. Very rarely do QBs that have failed like him magically morph into a good player. If he does, great! I’d be very happy if he plays well. But I’m not counting on it.

Given the risk Darnold comes with, already having 3 bad seasons under his belt, this team needed to bring in another starting option in case Darnold fails. They could have added a 1st round QB to compete with him. Or brought in a veteran FA. ANY competition for him at all. Hell they could have kept that asshole Teddy Bridgewater out of spite. Instead they have a former XFL QB and another massive draft bust that I want to forget this team ever had on the roster.

Bottom line is, if Darnold fails, this staff deserves to be eviscerated. Because that QB room might be the worst in the NFL.

Pro personnel folks commonly say that year 3 is when most players are going to be who they are. The two position groups that they say can take up to 5 are DE + QB. Of course, you want them to flash early and often, but spending their first 3 seasons with Adam Gase is not setting up any player for success.

Plus, I'd rather the rest of the team get built up so that they can install a QB and allow them to develop into the franchise guy everybody wants to throw money at. That's going to take away from the team's ability to have depth at other positions, which there's already hand wringing over.

Eviscerate the staff because they sent a 2nd round pick for a #3 overall selection where the first two picks were Mayfield & Saquon? Nah. I don't agree with that at all. Especially considering that the team had no idea how the most recent draft's QBs were going to fall. Remember how many posters in here were on their shared high horse looking down their snotty noses that picks #1 - #5 were going to all be QBs when that's never happened before in the history of the draft?

Edited August 6, 2021 by Icege

[1usctrojan]

I normally don’t like to post on these type of discussions, but I honestly want to know…..was this franchise ready to take a young rookie QB in the draft?  A QB  that played in elite college programs loaded with top offensive lines and best offensive weapons in CFB?  Considering all I’ve read here about the quality (or lack of) the current offensive line….do you think the Panthers were in a better position to develop a young QB than all the other franchises ahead of you?  If not, how are you different from the Jets, Bengals, etc.?
 

Your franchise signed a QB who has already played behind one of the worst lines I’ve ever seen at the pro level, it’s not going to be anything he hasn’t already played behind….but this time, with much, much better weapons.  Build your line, and if Sam plays well, maybe you get that 2nd round draft pick back you can bundle to go up in the draft.  Then you get Watson or one of the newest can’t miss QBs.