Panthers Cap Space (This Season) After Moton Deal

[SBBlue]

3 minutes ago, frankw said:

I would be hesitant to make that claim just yet. TB wasn't holding the team back bc he was a turnover machine though that was a factor. He could have been a decent starter if he pushed the ball downfield consistently and didn't opt for the easy play far too often. He was risk averse to a fault. With Sam we know he can sling it better than Teddy but it's a matter of coaching those too often risky plays out of him. There was a video in one of these threads going back to his usc days of him just heaving up some pretty dicey passes. That's the x factor we have to wait and see on if he will be able to progress from that.

And then there's some detractors who won't even concede Darnold>Teddy.   

No surprise there frankw, no surprise there.

[SBBlue]

37 minutes ago, frankw said:

Edit: I see it now. Moore is going to get minimum 80 millionish. Pair that with Burns deal that's a heap of salary cap that could make things tough for 2025.

Always looking for the silver lining frankw.

 

[bababoey]

28 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

Or exciting.  

Darnold plays better than Teddy, which even some of his detractors concede, and Teddy was  just below average in many categories. 

As for ints,  Darnold's 3% last year  was bad, but still better than the 3.1% in '16 and 3.3% in '18 that Tannehill had. 

Tannehill's is now at 1.5 int%.   Darnold doesn't have to get close to that for us to be good. 

Teddy had a 2.1 int% last year, a very reasonable target for Darnold this year.

People seem to forget that Darnold had a winning QB record in 2019, with the JETS and Gase.  That year, he had better a QB -record than Prescott, Ryan, Winston, Stafford, Rivers, and our Newton and  Kyle Allen.   Now that's a ridiculous comparison, I know.   But see how much situation matters?  Sam may fail, but I wouldn't say the odds lean overwhelmingly that way.

You don't have to have rose colored glasses to see that Sam could work, there's plenty of data to support it.  He has definite flashes on film.

The Bucs stood still and it looks like aints and birds took a step backward. 

I think we changed radically for the better.

In '19 Gase took the line calls and alot of adjustments they make off Darnold and gave it to the center in the second half of the season.  One of his coaches said something to this effect in the offseason.  

Everyone said that is why he played so much better in '19, but instead of doing that again in '20 Gase turned around and put it all right back on Darnold.  

As long as you don't treat him like Brady or Manning and expect him to call everything at the line, I think he can at least be a average QB.  Hopefully better.

[frankw]

22 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

And then there's some detractors who won't even concede Darnold>Teddy.   

No surprise there frankw, no surprise there.

Skepticism makes me a detractor? How can I concede that if we have yet to see him play a down for the team? In theory we think he will be an upgrade but it is not a guarantee like most things in life. If you can't handle a basic truth such as that you may have an unpleasant time this season if things hit the fan. I wish you luck.

[SBBlue]

3 minutes ago, frankw said:

Skepticism makes me a detractor? 

Some of Frankw's posts:

On thread with a  CMC touchdown:

" We got any clips like this from a winning season or no?"

"How many wins did the Carolina Panthers have in his 1k/1k season when he had an ungodly number of touches? Losses are losses my friend there are no silver linings. "

Other quotes:

"I will be here in the fall to collect your tears... "

"But homers gonna homer."

"Take off the shades from time to time."

"There was no rudeness no namecalling so what is your issue?"

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Dude, you make some good points, you really do.  You  act like we're all unreasonable and you're Mr. Objective and thats fine.  But there's a reason people call you wet blanket, or detractor.   

Its ok to support our quarterback.  Its ok to support the GM and coach.  Its ok to support even our Oline draftees.  

We need critics here, that's great, just don't be surprised if someone calls you a detractor, cause you've done you're share of it.  Some of your most positive posts have been about the aints.

 

[frankw]

1 hour ago, SBBlue said:

Always looking for the silver lining frankw

I know you're being sarcastic but the fact we have young defensive talent and a young wideout worth talking about big contracts for is a silver lining right there. The dilemma is no immediate plan B at quarterback and nothing on the horizon in a league that now hinges entirely on signal caller quality with many teams jostling for one. You might not want to hear it but an unbiased view dictates it would be wise to have a veteran other than PJ and Grier just looking at the odds of Darnold. Now before anyone chimes in about tanking I have been very much assured coaches and players wouldn't engage in that indirectly or otherwise. Can't create a winning team culture that way right?

[frankw]

1 minute ago, SBBlue said:

Some of Frankw's posts:

On thread with a  CMC touchdown:

" We got any clips like this from a winning season or no?"

"How many wins did the Carolina Panthers have in his 1k/1k season when he had an ungodly number of touches? Losses are losses my friend there are no silver linings. "

Other quotes:

"I will be here in the fall to collect your tears... "

"But homers gonna homer."

"Take off the shades from time to time."

"There was no rudeness no namecalling so what is your issue?"

----------------------------------------------------------

Dude, you make some good points, you really do.  You  act like we're all unreasonable and you're Mr. Objective and thats fine.  But there's a reason people call you wet blanket, or detractor.   

Its ok to support our quarterback.  Its ok to support the GM and coach.  Its ok to support even our Oline draftees.  

We need critics here, that's great, just don't be surprised if someone calls you a detractor, cause you've done you're share of it.  Some of your most positive posts have been about the aints.

 

Am I dragging the carcasses of your previous posts into our discussions like this? The opposite argument could be made for your efforts in how you attempt to squash dissent. But I have engaged with you in good faith when you have done the same. If you think my unbiased thoughts about the Panthers competing with the better teams in our division means I have a soft spot for any of them that's amusing. The last couple of years as a Panthers fan have been a big ego check so if my realism is too much for you I'll let you be from here on or try my best to. Enjoy

[SBBlue]

Just now, frankw said:

 the fact we have young defensive talent and a young wideout worth talking about big contracts for is a silver lining right there.

Frank, seeing silver linings.  I'm so proud of you.  I remember a time when you said there were no silver linings.

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The dilemma is no immediate plan B at quarterback

To early.  Sam may ball, we don't know who will pop up in the draft, where we're drafting, who will seek a trade and Sam may ball.  I know I said that twice.

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You might not want to hear it but an unbiased view dictates

 Everyones biased dude, you need to get past that.

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it would be wise to have a veteran other than PJ and Grier just looking at the odds of Darnold.

Hmmm.  I know I'm a minority, but PJ wasn't THAT bad.  Remove his EZ/RZ ints and you might have something there.  I do agree Darnold has an injury history which means our backups are going to get playing time.  I'm cool with upgrading there.

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Now before anyone chimes in about tanking I have been very much assured coaches and players wouldn't engage in that indirectly or otherwise. Can't create a winning team culture that way right?

Yeah, cause the teams that tank just do awesome the next couple years.

In my mind, it just doesn't buy you as much as you think it does, especially if the reason you suck is because you can't pick good players.

Throwing the last game of the season, I can understand, but tanking?  Naaah.

[SBBlue]

11 minutes ago, frankw said:

 The opposite argument could be made for your efforts in how you attempt to squash dissent.

Feel free, not because there isn't anything to be found, I'm sure there is,  But you'll have to go back and reread my posts.  I'm actually hoping someone does it.

How come when you present a view its unbiased and objective, but when I do I'm "squashing dissent"?

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If you think my unbiased thoughts

Unbiased.  there it is again.

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about the Panthers competing with the better teams in our division means I have a soft spot for any of them that's amusing.

Actually no.  Some parents see  more flaws in their own kids and some just like to cheer them on.  The world needs a little of both.

You're the ying to my yang buddy.  Good thing we joined about the same time.

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 if my realism is too much for you

 Realism, there it is again.

And no its not too much for me.  I rather enjoy it.

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I'll let you be from here on or try my best to. Enjoy

Ok, now who's too much for who?

Edited July 21, 2021 by SBBlue

[frankw]

26 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

Frank, seeing silver linings.  I'm so proud of you.  I remember a time when you said there were no silver linings.

To early.  Sam may ball, we don't know who will pop up in the draft, where we're drafting, who will seek a trade and Sam may ball.  I know I said that twice.

 Everyones biased dude, you need to get past that.

Hmmm.  I know I'm a minority, but PJ wasn't THAT bad.  Remove his EZ/RZ ints and you might have something there.  I do agree Darnold has an injury history which means our backups are going to get playing time.  I'm cool with upgrading there.

Yeah, cause the teams that tank just do awesome the next couple years.

In my mind, it just doesn't buy you as much as you think it does, especially if the reason you suck is because you can't pick good players.

Throwing the last game of the season, I can understand, but tanking?  Naaah.

I'm actually more optimistic about PJ than some. But just being better than Will Grier isn't enough. Nothing against Will bc he's a good guy but that's the rub what are ya gonna do. The tank is tempting and great for mindless arguing but it's a pipe dream for fans nothing more. You see what it got Doug Pederson.

19 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

Feel free, not because there isn't anything to be found, I'm sure there is,  But you'll have to go back and reread my posts.  I'm actually hoping someone does it.

How come when you present a view its unbiased and objective, but when I do I'm "squashing dissent"?

Unbiased.  there it is again.

Actually no.  Some parents see  more flaws in their own kids and some just like to cheer them on.  The world needs a little of both.

You're the ying to my yang buddy.  Good thing we joined about the same time.

 Realism, there it is again.

And no its not too much for me.  I rather enjoy it.

Ok, now who's too much for who?

I'm not motivated enough today to dig up bones. Perhaps unbiased is a little too unrealistic but what's my perceived bias? I hate the team? Maybe it's ten years of being told we have superman only to see it all fall to crap way too soon and then our hall of fame linebacker calling it quits. I thought we had a bigger window but that was not the case. So moving forward if it is an option of eternal optimism or being perceived as a little negative I'm going to straddle that middle ground until this team starts competing in the division again. If having a team is enough for some people hey I tip my cap but none of us are going to live forever so the least the team can do is stop being a doormat.

Edited July 21, 2021 by frankw

[Luciu5]

20 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

who's too much for who?

who's too much for whom.

[SBBlue]

26 minutes ago, frankw said:

Perhaps unbiased is a little too unrealistic but what's my perceived bias?

That everyone but you is biased.  We all are.  Your take also can come across more negative on the team.   And that's fine.   But celebrating accomplishments does not hinder us  from improving.

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I hate the team?

No I don't think that.  

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Maybe it's ten years of being told we have superman only to see it all fall to crap way too soon and then our hall of fame linebacker calling it quits.

Tell me about it.

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I thought we had a bigger window but that was not the case.

Me too.

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So moving forward if it is an option of eternal optimism or being perceived as a little negative I'm going to straddle that middle ground until this team starts competing in the division again.

That's fine.  I was pretty disillusioned last year, and when the D started to ball, I wondered if this was what Baylor and Temple felt. 

I was disappointed with the oline FA trades and when they traded for Sam I was like WTF are they doing? 

Some people posted on here some reasons Sam could work.  So I dug.  The more I dug, the more I realized that no QB would have good numbers in that situation.  Then I watched tape and saw the flashes.

Darnold was getting a bad wrap here by some vocal posters, particularly by some mods and regular posters, so I decided to join and share my learnings.  

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If having a team is enough for some people hey I tip my cap

Hell no it's not enough. 

But that doesn't mean you don't celebrate the wins, the slick moves or the progress.  

 

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but none of us are going to live forever so the least the team can do is stop being a doormat.

We are desperately trying to do that.  Gettleman, Shula, Richardson, RR, Hurney, all gone.

We have a new QB1, Wr's, TEs, OL, CBs, LB, OLB, Edge, and DT's, most of whom are going to see significant playing time.  We are plugging holes but there were just so many.

You can say that our bets  are wrong, but I don't believe they are stupid, and we are aggressively trying to improve. 

Tepper/Rhule and Fit agree with you....we have no intention of being the NFL's doormat.