Carolina Panthers: 5 big riddles Matt Rhule must solve at 2021 camp

[SBBlue]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

Yeah but then why can't we get more out of PJ Walker or Will Grier? You can't coach everyone up, for a WIDE variety of different reasons. .

PJ Walker looked good against Detroit except for the ints in the RZ/EZ.  To me he's a suitable backup and if given the chance to grow, could actually get good.  He has the arm and mobility.  I'm not saying he'll be a QB1 but I could see him becoming a legit QB2.  Grier, its like he chokes.  I don't know why he looks so bad.  

Ryan wasn't hired until January and don't know what the theories of the previous QB coach was.  All I was saying was that frank's post reminded me of the Ryan interview.

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I think it's gonna be pretty evident by about midseason what we have in Darnold.

I agree we'll have a good idea by midseason.

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It's either gonna be really good or really bad

If Sam blows the lid off the place first game, we are going to be stoked.

If Sam sucky sucks by mid to late season, I'll be switching camps.

Right now, I'm on team Sam.  Partly because I see the logic, and partly because I have no choice.

[iamhubby1]

33 minutes ago, bythenbrs said:

I respectfully disagree, in part.  Sean Ryan and Brady will spend 'quality time' with Sam, doing film study.  Lots and lots of it.  And then lots of repetition in training camp.  You can beat muscle memory into most willing athletes who want to get better.  Where the line is between coaching and 'between his ears' is too subjective.  In the end, he has to mentally internalize the film study.  I would say 70/30 on the ratio between coaching, film study, repetition and mental process/self awareness.  Who can say for sure?

 

I just don't get it. With all the things this staff is doing to help  make Sam a quality QB. I don't see how you can't be excited over what could be. Talented targets, better Oline, and actual QB coach, an OC who appears to know how to scheme, and a Head Coach with a Philosophy Degree. Teamed with a much improved D, and there is reason for optimism. At least IMO anywho.

 

I mean, man, if this works, we will be a team to be reckoned with. I tell ya what.

[iamhubby1]

1 hour ago, bythenbrs said:

I respectfully disagree, in part.  Sean Ryan and Brady will spend 'quality time' with Sam, doing film study.  Lots and lots of it.  And then lots of repetition in training camp.  You can beat muscle memory into most willing athletes who want to get better.  Where the line is between coaching and 'between his ears' is too subjective.  In the end, he has to mentally internalize the film study.  I would say 70/30 on the ratio between coaching, film study, repetition and mental process/self awareness.  Who can say for sure?

 

 

I have no doubt that if Sam puts in the work, this staff will help him realize his full potential. And so far, it appears as though he is putting in the work. There are plenty of reasons to believe that Sam can exceed expectations this year, and moving forward.

 

I mean, being optimistic for the future, sure beats where we were just 2 short years ago. 

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, SBBlue said:

PJ Walker looked good against Detroit except for the ints in the RZ/EZ.  To me he's a suitable backup and if given the chance to grow, could actually get good.  He has the arm and mobility.  I'm not saying he'll be a QB1 but I could see him becoming a legit QB2.  Grier, its like he chokes.  I don't know why he looks so bad.  

Ryan wasn't hired until January and don't know what the theories of the previous QB coach was.  All I was saying was that frank's post reminded me of the Ryan interview.

For the most part I typically lean towards the bulk of the end result of a player's career being weighted towards the player and not the coaching. I don't say that to diminish the importance of coaching, after all there is always more to learn and ways to improve. By that same token, most of the players in the NFL have gone through years of playing, being coached, film study, etc. I think that is why you have guys like Grier that don't succeed. They just don't have what it takes to be NFL players for whatever reason. 

You always want the best possible coaches but sometimes you can't get anything more from a player simply because they don't have what you are trying to get out of them. Some players have it, others don't.

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I agree we'll have a good idea by midseason.

If Sam blows the lid off the place first game, we are going to be stoked.

If Sam sucky sucks by mid to late season, I'll be switching camps.

Right now, I'm on team Sam.  Partly because I see the logic, and partly because I have no choice.

I am not going to get too excited about Sam until around midseason unless he is just clearly fuging elite level or horrifically bad. Same way I felt about Teddy last year when people were jumping for joy after the first few games and pointing to his elite completion percentage. So, even if Sam lights up the Jets or lays a fuging egg I am not going to get caught up in all the hoopla. I realize that will differ from roughly 95% of the Huddle but eventually you watch enough football, especially Panthers football, to try to temper your reactions until there is at least a worthwhile amount of data to discern something significant.

As others have stated in various threads, the real nightmare scenario is probably a yo-yo edition of Sam Darnold, where he is just generally all over the map during the course of the season. At that point, you have to somehow figure out if the highs are high enough to still be excited about potential with the lows factored in. That's a tough one because we might end up suffering through two seasons of trying to figure it out. Frankly, I'd rather he just show up being regular Darnold bad and just move on after a year than have to deal with two seasons of "figuring it out." Strange as it may sound, really bad Darnold and really good Darnold are equally easy situations to deal with. At least you know what the path forward is once you know that. 

[bythenbrs]

2 hours ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

I just don't get it. With all the things this staff is doing to help  make Sam a quality QB. I don't see how you can't be excited over what could be. Talented targets, better Oline, and actual QB coach, an OC who appears to know how to scheme, and a Head Coach with a Philosophy Degree. Teamed with a much improved D, and there is reason for optimism. At least IMO anywho.

 

I mean, man, if this works, we will be a team to be reckoned with. I tell ya what.

Oh, I am excited about Sam’s potential.  I think he will surprise to the upside.  I believe he is capable of becoming Jake 2.0, and that will be good enough for me when combined with the other roster moves, especially on defense.

[CRA]

If you look at the last 10 RBs that lead the NFL in touches…..they overwhelming have struggled the following year.  Zeke and McCoy pulled it off.  That’s about it.   Bell an asterisk I guess since he sat out.  Sure looks like a trend though.  We got to dial back on CMCs workload IMO.  

 

[pantherj]

Can the Carolina Panthers rely on Joey Slye?

No.

What are the Carolina Panthers going to do with Brady Christensen?

RT, Moton to LT

How can the Carolina Panthers maximize Jeremy Chinn’s impact?

Play him at his best suited position.

How can the Carolina Panthers keep Christian McCaffrey healthy?

Use the other RB some.

How can the Carolina Panthers build Sam Darnold’s confidence?

Convince him that the vaccine will improve his play if he gets it. He seems to be easily manipulated by nonsense.

Edited July 17, 2021 by pantherj

[CPsinceDay1]

6 hours ago, SBBlue said:

How can the Carolina Panthers build Sam Darnold’s confidence?

Sam Darnold can't generate confidence in himself

[iamhubby1]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

If you look at the last 10 RBs that lead the NFL in touches…..they overwhelming have struggled the following year.  Zeke and McCoy pulled it off.  That’s about it.   Bell an asterisk I guess since he sat out.  Sure looks like a trend though.  We got to dial back on CMCs workload IMO.  

 

 

I get what you are driving at. We need to dial down CMCs touches. I bet almost every Panther fan would agree. 

 

However, there are a bunch of RBs that are going strong. Maybe they haven't led the league, but they carry their teams. I mean, Gordon, Gore, Ware, Zeke, Drake off the top of my head.

 

Running your RB into the ground is bad. You are worried we will overuse CMC. I hope we don't, most hope we don't.

[Snake]

6 hours ago, SBBlue said:

I don't think we were doing a full on tank.  Some think we just spelled CMC to save him for this year.   

Though I think we might use Chuba more than we have used the other backup RBs.  That might be my draft-goggles talking, but damn he is exciting to watch.

Lets build some comfortable leads so we can rest CMC.

Having a talented back behind CMC is nothing but good. Rivera used him way too much. He's probably the most dangerous weapon in the NFL but that doesn't mean he needs to be smashing himself for 3rd and 1s all game.

[Snake]

6 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

RB is a high mileage position. The biggest concern wasn't really that CMC got injured, it's that he kept getting injured over the course of the season. He had three separate injuries in the 2020 season when he had not missed a game due to injury in his career prior to that. CMC has undoubtedly played at less than 100% multiple times(as most NFL players do) but that spate of injuries has to make you wonder if some of those injuries might have been the result of his usage rate. 

But, it's also possible it was a statistical outlier and just a cluster of bad luck events. I think his health this season will probably give us our answer.

I mean probably states you play a player 100% of the time for years they are going to get hurt but Rivera was horrible at over using players. Having a talented back behind CMC is a good thing no matter how you use him. I also think Rhule is 100% better at player usage than Rivera was.

[panthers55]

The problem with sitting CMC is that there isn't a better player who can break it for 6 on virtually any play. He is our most explosive player who is useful even as a decoy. And he hates to sit out. He wants the ball on every play.  I can agree he needs more breaks but I wouldn't blame the head coach alone for overusing him. Usually the OC controls how many reps and how many potential touches players get based on the plays we run.

[iamhubby1]

Chubba was a great pick. He had really good success in this exact system. He absolutely can be a home run threat. To me, that was the drawback of sitting CMC. The drop-off in production.

 

This was another example of the present regime not just adding players, but adding players that actually fit their basic scheme. Then they coach em up, and put them in a position to succeed. Competence, thou art a welcome sight.

[kungfoodude]

6 hours ago, Snake said:

I mean probably states you play a player 100% of the time for years they are going to get hurt but Rivera was horrible at over using players. Having a talented back behind CMC is a good thing no matter how you use him. I also think Rhule is 100% better at player usage than Rivera was.

His usage rate in the three games last year was basically at Rivera levels. That is what is concerning. I get it, he is a fantastic weapon and he is the highest paid player at his position. But....if we don't control his usage better, it will eventually come back to bite us, if it already hasn't.