Carolina Panthers: 5 big riddles Matt Rhule must solve at 2021 camp

[Snake]

1 minute ago, SBBlue said:

 

 

There has been talk on podcasts of a soft-tank.

That CMC's injuries weren't necessarily as bad as we reported, but we knew we weren't going to compete last year, so we spelled him to save wear and tear for this year.

 

Its possible but if we were tanking we probably should have tanked that Washington game. I really think its probably they were not willing to push a player for nothing or allow a player to push himself for future injuries.

[SBBlue]

Just now, Snake said:

Its possible but if we were tanking we probably should have tanked that Washington game. I really think its probably they were not willing to push a player for nothing or allow a player to push himself for future injuries.

I don't think we were doing a full on tank.  Some think we just spelled CMC to save him for this year.   

Though I think we might use Chuba more than we have used the other backup RBs.  That might be my draft-goggles talking, but damn he is exciting to watch.

Lets build some comfortable leads so we can rest CMC.

[iamhubby1]

9 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

 

 

There has been talk on podcasts of a soft-tank.

That CMC's injuries weren't necessarily as bad as we reported, but we knew we weren't going to compete last year, so we spelled him to save wear and tear for this year.

 

 

Part of me thinks this is a strong possibility. I don't remember ever seeing CMC in a sling. Coinky dinky? Who knows.

 

6 minutes ago, Snake said:

Its possible but if we were tanking we probably should have tanked that Washington game. I really think its probably they were not willing to push a player for nothing or allow a player to push himself for future injuries.

 

That WFT game was a mess. It came down to who could actually football. And unfortunately, they were just better at being bad than we were. lol

[kungfoodude]

12 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

 

 

There has been talk on podcasts of a soft-tank.

That CMC's injuries weren't necessarily as bad as we reported, but we knew we weren't going to compete last year, so we spelled him to save wear and tear for this year.

 

I don't think that would go well with him or the team in general. That would have a pretty big negative impact on morale, IMO. 

These are very competitive people, after all. 

[SBBlue]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

I don't think that would go well with him or the team in general. That would have a pretty big negative impact on morale, IMO. 

These are very competitive people, after all. 

I agree.  It's more a matter of degree.  If we were playoff bound, CMC could be 85-90% and he and we would be pushing him to play.  But by mid season when CMC came back and got hurt again, we probably said, make sure CMC is 100% before he plays again, telling CMC, "hey take it easy, you've already been hurt twice."

We might have behaved differently if we were playoff bound.

Its all conjecture.

 

[kungfoodude]

27 minutes ago, Snake said:

I mean CMC has been pretty healthy. So thats really not an issue in my mind but I think picking up Chuba will definitely help with the wear and tear of the season.

RB is a high mileage position. The biggest concern wasn't really that CMC got injured, it's that he kept getting injured over the course of the season. He had three separate injuries in the 2020 season when he had not missed a game due to injury in his career prior to that. CMC has undoubtedly played at less than 100% multiple times(as most NFL players do) but that spate of injuries has to make you wonder if some of those injuries might have been the result of his usage rate. 

But, it's also possible it was a statistical outlier and just a cluster of bad luck events. I think his health this season will probably give us our answer.

[iamhubby1]

2 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

I agree.  It's more a matter of degree.  If we were playoff bound, CMC could be 85-90% and he and we would be pushing him to play.  But by mid season when CMC came back and got hurt again, we probably said, make sure CMC is 100% before he plays again, telling CMC, "hey take it easy, you've already been hurt twice."

We might have behaved differently if we were playoff bound.

Its all conjecture.

 

 

As to the tank. I don't think we tried to lose games, we just had a knack of not winning. I believe Teddy had a major role in that.

 

CMC thing? I think not letting him play had more to do with getting him 100% healthy before he hit the field again. He just never got to that point. Hence, he didn't play. 

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

I agree.  It's more a matter of degree.  If we were playoff bound, CMC could be 85-90% and he and we would be pushing him to play.  But by mid season when CMC came back and got hurt again, we probably said, make sure CMC is 100% before he plays again, telling CMC, "hey take it easy, you've already been hurt twice."

We might have behaved differently if we were playoff bound.

Its all conjecture.

 

I think it is possible for the last couple of games that he was out when he "could" have played, that really doesn't seem like a logical leap. 

I seem to recall he may have mentioned wanting to play in the last game or two. Not 100% sure I remember that correctly.

[SBBlue]

2 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

As to the tank. I don't think we tried to lose games, we just had a knack of not winning. I believe Teddy had a major role in that.

 

CMC thing? I think not letting him play had more to do with getting him 100% healthy before he hit the field again. He just never got to that point. Hence, he didn't play. 

I think weight had something to do with it. 

This is just my own opinion, but CMC looked bulked up last year...not just upper-body but legs too. That extra weight landed on his shoulders when he dove for the first down and pounds on his joints with every step...he's just not that type of runner and I'm not sure the extra weight aids him like we think it would.  

I don't know how much he weighed each year so I have no data to support the theory.  I just remember briefly wondering if the extra weight was really going to help or hurt.  I could be off on all of it.

 

[iamhubby1]

7 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

I think weight had something to do with it. 

This is just my own opinion, but CMC looked bulked up last year...not just upper-body but legs too. That extra weight landed on his shoulders when he dove for the first down and pounds on his joints with every step...he's just not that type of runner and I'm not sure the extra weight aids him like we think it would.  

I don't know how much he weighed each year so I have no data to support the theory.  I just remember briefly wondering if the extra weight was really going to help or hurt.  I could be off on all of it.

 

 

Weight is a subject that has a lot of angles. I think, for a RB, there is a weight that fits. Too much, and it can mess up your smoothness (For lack of a better word.) Too little weight, and you lose power.

 

It's the Goldilocks theory. Too much? Doesn't work. Too little? Doesn't work. Just right? Works.

 

Now, with all that said. I have no clue, nor scientific research to base this off. It is just how it worked for me. But, that was a long time ago. When weights were not as prevalent as they are today. Hellz, my High School did not even have a weight room. lol

[bythenbrs]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

Darnold we just aren't going to know anything about until the games start. I firmly believe no matter how hard we try to fix him, the problem is ultimately between his ears. That is really gonna be on him to fix.

I respectfully disagree, in part.  Sean Ryan and Brady will spend 'quality time' with Sam, doing film study.  Lots and lots of it.  And then lots of repetition in training camp.  You can beat muscle memory into most willing athletes who want to get better.  Where the line is between coaching and 'between his ears' is too subjective.  In the end, he has to mentally internalize the film study.  I would say 70/30 on the ratio between coaching, film study, repetition and mental process/self awareness.  Who can say for sure?

[SBBlue]

1 minute ago, bythenbrs said:

I respectfully disagree, in part.  Sean Ryan and Brady will spend 'quality time' with Sam, doing film study.  Lots and lots of it.  And then lots of repetition in training camp.  You can beat muscle memory into most willing athletes who want to get better.  Where the line is between coaching and 'between his ears' is too subjective.  In the end, he has to mentally internalize the film study.  I would say 70/30 on the ratio between coaching, film study, repetition and mental process/self awareness.  Who can say for sure?

That is exactly what the QB coach, Ryan said.  Add to it VR training to read D's from QB view.

Over and over and over.

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, bythenbrs said:

I respectfully disagree, in part.  Sean Ryan and Brady will spend 'quality time' with Sam, doing film study.  Lots and lots of it.  And then lots of repetition in training camp.  You can beat muscle memory into most willing athletes who want to get better.  Where the line is between coaching and 'between his ears' is too subjective.  In the end, he has to mentally internalize the film study.  I would say 70/30 on the ratio between coaching, film study, repetition and mental process/self awareness.  Who can say for sure?

I think he can improve but I suspect we will start seeing bad habits when the pressure gets to him in 2021. That isn't so simple to train out in a short period of time. Sometimes it just never happens for whatever reason or combination of reasons. 

We also have to appreciate that he really doesn't have much experience actually playing quarterback. 

Edited July 16, 2021 by kungfoodude

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

That is exactly what the QB coach, Ryan said.  Add to it VR training to read D's from QB view.

Over and over and over.

Yeah but then why can't we get more out of PJ Walker or Will Grier? You can't coach everyone up, for a WIDE variety of different reasons. 

That's the thing, we don't KNOW that he is going to improve with any of the things we are doing that might be better than the Jets. 

I think it's gonna be pretty evident by about midseason what we have in Darnold. It's either gonna be really good or really bad.