"You can't judge somebody based off of sacks"

[SBBlue]

4 minutes ago, L-TownCat said:

We made one poo his pants.

Couple actually.

Panthers 5 sacks of Rodgers led by Derrick Brown

Panthers 5 Sacks and 11 QB hits on Stafford

 

[Icege]

1 hour ago, Khaki Lackey said:

As far as unnerving the QB, I guarantee you the guys that put the QB on his ass are more effective at it. 

Player	Hrry	QBKD	Sk	Prss
Brian Burns	16	11	9	37
Haason Reddick	16	5	12.5	34
Derrick Brown	7	10	2	19
Morgan Fox	4	3	6	13
Yetur Gross-Matos	5	4	2.5	12
DaQuan Jones	5	3	2	11
Marquis Haynes	4	2	4	10
Bravvion Roy	3	4	1	8
Frankie Luvu	3	2	2	7
Christian Miller	0	0	2	2
Caraun Reid	1	0	0	1
Frank Herron	1	0	0	1
Austin Larkin	0	0	0	0

Updated table including QB hits + hurries.

Brian Burns is gonna get charged with assault this year at the rate he's putting hands on opposing QBs. Lawd that man is good.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Icege

[Icege]

On 7/16/2021 at 11:35 AM, kass said:

There was an interview this off-season with Luke, posted on this forum. I think he stated he thought Tackle for loss was an underrated stat.

I think Reddick ended up top 5 in that stat. 

Is that worth to be included? 

What stats did the rookies have in college? 

Thank you for the heads up on this! I got curious about Luke's thoughts and found the clip mentioned (click here).

Luke mentions that tackles are great, but if you can effect the game at or behind the LOS and in the pass game in coverage, LBs tend to separate themselves. He specifically mentions TFLs being incredibly valuable with the best having 10 - 12. Their ability in coverage is important, but their ability to effect the play at or behind the LOS is what differentiates the great LBs.

With that in mind, let's do some more stats digging! A couple of quick notes, once again:

• Julian Stanford and Clay Johnston are not on the list as their contributions came primarily on ST
• Christian Miller is not on the list as his only stats from his rookie season are for pass rushing. He did not appear to drop back in coverage (at least, according to PFR)
• Sam Franklin was included as he played a role similar to what Jeremy Chinn did, but as a rotational piece
• Denzel Perryman only started 6 of the 13 games that he played last season. He had significant injury concerns leading up until then and is considered a high risk for injury, but he was in Anthony Lynn's doghouse during his time with the Chargers (Lynn even sent Perryman and Tillery home rather than having them come to a game).

Player	Comb	TFL	Sks	MTkl%	FFs	INTs	PDs	PassRat
Jeremy Chinn	117	2	1	11.4%	2	1	5	115.5
Shaq Thompson	114	6	0	6.6%	2	0	5	90.7
Jermaine Carter Jr	46	2	0	9.8%	0	0	1	93.7
Frankie Luvu	59	3	2	19.4%	1	0	1	131.2
Denzel Perryman	48	3	1	2.0%	1	0	1	94.7
Sam Franklin	23	1	1	14.8%	0	0	1	91.1

You know... for all of the unfair criticisms that Shaq receives ("bUt hIs cOntrAct"), he's the best cover LB on the team. He has the lowest passer rating when targeted out of the LBs listed, tied for 3rd on the team in PDs (only behind Donte + Rasul), and only Perryman has a better missed tackle percentage while having just over a third of Shaq's combined tackles. Shaq also leads the group in TFLs, Luke's under appreciated stat.

Frankie Luvu's numbers concern me a bit, but I'm hoping to see Jermaine Carter Jr get more opportunities this season as he showed that he was clearly the better option when compared to Tahir Whitehead last season. Jeremy Chinn's passer rating when targeted concerns me a bit, but he was also a rookie playing everywhere. Plus, we've already seen what the kid can do and that's literally everything.

Numbers don't lie tho: Shaq Thompson is currently the best LB on the team. His numbers were also better than Deion Jones, who in a previous thread was somehow rated above him? Hopefully now that the team has a better DL + DBs (and no more Tahir Whitehead), Shaq can effect more plays behind the line like he did in 2019 when he had 11 TFLs + 3 sacks.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Icege

[Snake]

Pressure is all nice and good but a Sack is a tackle for loss and is why its so important. Give me an line that causes sacks and TFL and I will show you a great defense. Give me a line that gets pressures and hurried throws and I will show you an average defensive line.

[pantherclaw]

Sacks are awesome, but constantly getting pressure, flushing the qb, making rush his decisions and throws is just as important.  

I'll take an interception off a rushed throw, over a sack any and every time. 

[Mother Grabber]

i thought this was about snacks, and came in here full of bluster to give someone poo about their choice of salsa.

am disappoint

[onmyown]

8 hours ago, pantherclaw said:

Sacks are awesome, but constantly getting pressure, flushing the qb, making rush his decisions and throws is just as important.  

I'll take an interception off a rushed throw, over a sack any and every time. 

Agreed. But the Panthers fail at all of it.

Panthers overall hurries, 20th in the league, pressures a little better at 18, and yea sacks…22nd. Interceptions? 28th. Missed tackles…28th.

People want to say the secondary is what cause all this but the run defense was one of the worst in the league. When that happens, teams will flourish in the passing game.

What did the Panthers do well? Hit the QB slightly after throwing it. What’s happening? Pretty simple, short passing. Why the need to gain big chunks when you can just gain half a first down on average against the Panther by rushing? So the secondary fails because the dline fails at stopping the run, and the dline then is powerless against quick passes. Something has to give.

I don’t care so much about an individual. But those numbers are god awful. Kings of the bottom 1/3rd of the NFL.

It has to get better.

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by onmyown

[pantherclaw]

1 hour ago, onmyown said:

Agreed. But the Panthers fail at all of it.

Panthers overall hurries, 20th in the league, pressures a little better at 18, and yea sacks…22nd. Interceptions? 28th. Missed tackles…28th.

People want to say the secondary is what cause all this but the run defense was one of the worst in the league. When that happens, teams will flourish in the passing game.

What did the Panthers do well? Hit the QB slightly after throwing it. What’s happening? Pretty simple, short passing. Why the need to gain big chunks when you can just gain half a first down on average against the Panther by rushing? So the secondary fails because the dline fails at stopping the run, and the dline then is powerless against quick passes. Something has to give.

I don’t care so much about an individual. But those numbers are god awful. Kings of the bottom 1/3rd of the NFL.

It has to get better.

 

Our defense has had to been rebuilt. Surely you didn't expect miracles.from it last season. 

[rippadonn]

Loser mentality. Get them sacks son!

I watched Greg Hardy and Charles Johnson both "almost" get there for two-three years until they consistently got sacks AND pressures.

Don't make excuses you are not elite until you start getting sacks, Brian Burns included.

[MHS831]

I beg to differ. 

That is an impressive squirrel.

Edited July 18, 2021 by MHS831

[Icege]

19 hours ago, onmyown said:

Agreed. But the Panthers fail at all of it.

Panthers overall hurries, 20th in the league, pressures a little better at 18, and yea sacks…22nd. Interceptions? 28th. Missed tackles…28th.

People want to say the secondary is what cause all this but the run defense was one of the worst in the league. When that happens, teams will flourish in the passing game.

What did the Panthers do well? Hit the QB slightly after throwing it. What’s happening? Pretty simple, short passing. Why the need to gain big chunks when you can just gain half a first down on average against the Panther by rushing? So the secondary fails because the dline fails at stopping the run, and the dline then is powerless against quick passes. Something has to give.

I don’t care so much about an individual. But those numbers are god awful. Kings of the bottom 1/3rd of the NFL.

It has to get better.

Some of the players the defense lost vs. players the defense has gained

Player	Int	PDs	Rat	Hrry	QBKD	Sk	Prss	Comb	TFL	FF	MTkl	MTkl%
Tahir Whitehead	1	1	99.6	1	1	0	2	51	0	0	7	12.1%
Stephen Weatherly	0	0	109.7	6	3	0	9	17	1	0	3	15.0%
Zach Kerr	0	2	108.3	3	6	2	13	32	2	0	0	0.0%
Efe Obada	0	0		5	9	5.5	21	18	4	0	4	18.2%
Player	Int	PDs	Rat	Hrry	QBKD	Sk	Prss	Comb	TFL	FF	MTkl	MTkl%
Denzel Perryman	0	1	94.7	1	1	1	2	48	3	1	1	2.0%
Haason Reddick	0	4	132.8	16	5	12.5	34	63	15	6	4	6.0%
DaQuan Jones	0	0	91.7	5	3	2	13	49	4	1	7	12.5%
Morgan Fox	0	2	39.6	4	3	6	13	27	8	1	0	0%

Obada and Kerr were two solid contributors, but both were rotational guys with Kerr becoming a starter after KK went down week 3. With Brown & Roy going into their second years and the additions this offseason (Jones, Fox, Nixon, and Hoskins), the team is in a good position to get better.

If the interior should have a minor upgrade, the MLB and other DE positions offer significant upgrades. Haason Reddick & Denzel Perryman replacing Stephen Weatherly & Tahir Whitehead have to give the defense a better chance to get off of the field. 

Those overall hurries? Haason Reddick alone had more hurries (16) than the four from last season combined (15). That would push the team from 20th to 11th. Pressures? 62 for the 2021 additions to last season's 45 to go from 18th in pressures to 11th. Sacks? 21.5 vs 7.5 (from 22nd to 9th). TFLs? The new crop has 23 more TFLs to their name, which would have pushed the Panthers from 26th to 7th.

The only stats that aren't significantly altered from those changes are missed tackles (new guys have 2 less than last year's) and INTs (last year's has 1 to the new guys' 0). There's also the 4 extra PDs from the additions.

I'm feeling much, much better about this year's defense than I did last year's which was expected to struggle.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Icege

[Davidson Deac II]

Fwiw, we were second in the league in Sacks in 2019.  Our defense was still horrible. In fact, it was probably the worst Panthers defense I have seen in 25 years of being a Panther fan.

[Michael G]

Pressured and Hurries are better than nothing, but great QBs can often deal with pressure- its getting knocked on their A$$ that affects them. Sacks and QB Hits probably have a higher percentage of causing turnovers (Ints and Fumbles) and TFLs.

[shaqattaq]

On 7/17/2021 at 11:13 PM, Mother Grabber said:

i thought this was about snacks, and came in here full of bluster to give someone poo about their choice of salsa.

am disappoint