Who Will Be Panthers Biggest 2021 Sleeper?

[MHS831]

2 hours ago, bythenbrs said:

What is that bear doing on my couch? 

 

[SBBlue]

2 hours ago, stbugs said:

Dead cap is simply accounting for the cap that has been paid and not hit the cap yet due to spacing out bonuses.

Yes.

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 Saying it’s important is like saying a player has to have a contract to play for us. 

Yes, since a player has to have a contract, it is important.

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 It doesn’t make your point more valid.

Its just valid.  It doesn't need to be more valid.

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Teddy got us 5-11. IDGAF if he was a nice guy who tried hard. He threw 15 TDs with Samuel, Moore and Anderson. He blew multiple games. I’d say Kalil had just as much good impact in 2017, when we went 11-5 and almost beat the Saints than Teddy did getting us to 5-11. They both sucked.

Using team wins as stats for the OT one year and the QB in another year to determine who sucked worse has so many problems with it, I'm not going to even try.

 I was saying that Kalil had played better before, and Teddy had never played better, but if you want to say that was Kalil's best, fine.  They both sucked.

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You may not care how much Kalil was paid

I do care.

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and care more about the cap over 4 years

You should care about the cap too.

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 there is way more flexibility than you are portraying.

I'm not sure where I said anything inflexible.

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 Again, it was a crappy contract, no one is saying any different.

Agreed.

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Kalil wasn’t our albatross.

Correct.  I said posterboy.

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 Matt Kalil hit our 2020 dead cap to a tune of $10M.

Yes, 3 years after he played a snap.  More than Newton, Olson and Luke. 

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Short, Weatherly, Apple, Poe, Turner, Reid, Roberts and Gano hit our dead cap/IR cap for over $50M.

OK, not sure why you need to add 8 players together to compare to 1 player's cap hit, but ok.

 

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Unfortunately for the 2020 Panthers, Kalil did almost as well this year for us as the rest of the others.

Agreed.  Short, Turner, and Gano at least gave us some good years.  Matt Kalil didn't give us one.

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 If you really were overly concerned about Kalil, you missed the forest for the trees.

I'm not overly concerned.  Actually you seem overly protective of  Matt and in your attempts to protect him you just throw a bunch of mud around. 

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You forgot Short had an almost $20M cap hit for 2020.

Good catch.  

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Such a stupid decision. Short’s 2020 cap hit for a terrible performance

WOAH.  Ok.  Now we disagree.  Lets do this one.  Short was awesome when we signed him.  That man was fundamental to the 2015 run and had given a good year again 2016 before the contract.

Kawann Short contract extension with Carolina is well-deserved | PFF News & Analysis | PFF

• Short’s run-defense grade of 85.4 ranked second among interior defenders last season.
• His pass-rush productivity has ranked in the top 10 each of the past two seasons, with a PRP of 7.7 last year.
• Short’s pass-rush grade of 81.2 was also in the top 10 at his position in 2016.

It was great that we resigned a good player.  Expecting the GM to see future injuries and player decline is unreasonable.  

You defend Matt Kalil's contract and attack Shorts', talk about not seeing the forest from the trees.

 

[SBBlue]

An agent’s take: Expectations on DT Kawann Short’s contract extension (usatoday.com)

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“Kawann Short will want a minimum of $15M per year & $50M in guarantees. He is represented by Joel Segal, who negotiated Justin Houston’s big deal.”

While those numbers may come as a shock to most fans, they make perfect sense. It’s rare to have such a dominant defensive lineman that can make such an impact on the entire defense outside of a dedicated pass rusher on the ends. A major part of the Panthers’ success can be attributed to the defensive line harassing quarterbacks and stopping the run, with Short at the forefront of it.

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[SBBlue]

@stbugs

Panthers part ways with veteran left tackle Kalil (espn.com)

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Former general manager Dave Gettleman signed Kalil in free agency prior to the 2017 season to fill a void on the line....

The five-year, $55.5 million deal for Matt Kalil, who missed most of the 2016 season for Minnesota with a hip injury, was criticized by league pundits. The criticism continued as Kalil struggled early in the 2017 season, receiving a 36.6 grade from Pro Football Focus that was one of the worst among starting left tackles.

He missed the 2018 season with a knee injury.

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Watching Kalil miss assignments and whiff blocks was maddening.

[joemac]

On 7/10/2021 at 4:35 PM, Captain Morgan said:

we also have Perryman under contract next year at a very good deal for us, allowing us to keep him cheap or cut and run.

Let's hope he can be the guy.

We'll need a new OLB next year, but with Perryman and Jermaine, I hope we have our ILB situation firmed up in the short term.

I really think Carter could step into that starting role if given the chance.  He was very impressive last year when he took over for Whitehead, and the defense as a whole was a lot better with him in there.  Can Carter play outside, opposite Shaq?  Although I guess officially our starting LBs are Shaq, Denzel and Reddick?  

[SBBlue]

32 minutes ago, stbugs said:

 When did I defend his contract and when did I attack Short’s?

Defend Matt in same post:

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My point still is that it’s dumb to make Kalil the poster boy for wasted cap

Attack Shorts contract:

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You forgot Short had an almost $20M cap hit for 2020. Such a stupid decision.

 

 

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 Not seeing the forest for the trees is seeing only Kalil’s bad contract and not seeing the forest of bad contracts behind it.

No one is saying Kalil is the ONLY bad contract.   Not sure how to communicate that to you.

Do you even know what a poster boy is?  Its, a perfect example.  You're arguing against 'poster boy' of Matt Kalil's contract is the same as you arguing that its not the perfect example of a bad contract. 

When it is.

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 it’s dumb to worry about his dead cap in 2020.

Who's worrying?  smh  The idea is to avoid dead cap.   Mat Kail produced more dead cap than he did on the field.

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 Gettleman signed the wrong guy for way too much

Hey we agree.

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That’s the GM’s doing not the player.

Hey we agree again.  Though some players when they don't perform allow us to restructure with reduction. That didn't happen with speedbump Matt Kalil.

 

In summary, Matt Kalil's contract was a mistake the day it was signed.  He played one horrific year for 25 million.  Matt Kalil had already declined before we signed him.   

In contrast Kawan Shorts contract was a great contract when it was signed because it wasn't obvious  at the time that he was going to decline.  In fact he had been awesome.

The cap situation when you sign a player matters.  Dead cap matters.  Its not 'just accounting'.

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by SBBlue

[KatsAzz]

19 hours ago, Newbie said:

I’m throwing Keith Taylor’s name in the mix. 

Good choice. That would be a good surprise if CB Keith Taylor, who was drafted 166 in the 5th rd., not only made the team but excelled.

[Newbie]

13 minutes ago, KatsAzz said:

Good choice. That would be a good surprise if CB Keith Taylor, who was drafted 166 in the 5th rd., not only made the team but excelled.

He looked great at Senior Bowl week and I was thrilled when we picked him. He fits our scheme well and wouldn’t be surprised if he were one of the picks we look back on as a steal. 

[SBBlue]

47 minutes ago, stbugs said:

This is my last post on this

And then you reply.

You then make 3 points we agree on.  

The last one.  Sheesh.

I think you are hanging on to Short's contract.    Maybe its the forest tree thing you keep talking about:

Kawann Short Fantasy Football News - CBSSports.com - Page 3

"

Panthers' Kawann Short: Replacement at Pro Bowl
Kawann Short went to Sunday's Pro Bowl as a replacement for Rams defensive end Aaron Donald.Short missed the final two games of the season with a calf injury, but it seems he's healthy again. The soon-to-be 30-year-old remains under contract in 2019 with another gaudy $17 million cap hit.

01/15/2019 by RotoWire Staff | RotoWire

Panthers' Kawann Short: Misses first games of career
Kawann Short (calf) finished the 2018 regular season with 42 tackles (29 solo), three sacks and a forced fumble in 14 games played.Short was rested for Carolina's final two games while nursing a calf injury, marking the first couple absences of his six-year career. Although he remained a menacing interior presence, registering a personal-best 10 stuffs this term, the veteran didn't get to the quarterback as much as usual. After two sacks Week 1, Short only managed one the rest of the season. Considering he racked up 24.5 over the prior three years, Short should be eager to get back to his best in 2019.

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Short's 2018 was a down year, but it wasn't as bad as you're implying and certainly not enough to cut him lose pre-2019.

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We could have had way more and already extended Moton and still be in better shape.

Cap space is not what is stopping us from signing Moton.

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Kalil is the tree, the forest is Teddy, Okung, Short, Reid, Weatherly, Apple, Roberta, etc.

There's your problem.

They are all trees dude.

Kalil is a giant big fat rotten tree, because he was one of the worst performing tackles in the league the one year he played for us on his 5 year 50 million contract.  In the end he only cost us 25, but we  shouldn't have signed him for 10.  The guy was a turnstile, just as he had been for the Vikings ever since his rookie year.

Teddy was not one of the worst performing quarterbacks the one year he played.  He was mediocre.

Okung, when he played, was better than Matt, and we paid him much much less.

Stop comparing Speedbump Matt Kalil with GROUPS of other players, saying he's just a tree but the rest are the forest.  They are all trees.  

As long as you have to grab a GROUP of contracts to compare to Matts, you are making my point.

He wasn't the forest.  He was a big fat rotten tree in the forest. 

The poster boy of bad trees.

Who would you put on your poster?

Edited July 12, 2021 by SBBlue

[CRA]

DaQuan Jones IMO will be the best FA add.  

And he will be surprising because all Panther fans largely talk about on the DL is Burns, Brown, etc and the young guns.    

[Snake]

Chuba Hubbard.

[CPsinceDay1]

I'm going out on a limb and say....PJ "All I Do is Win" Walker

[Pup McBarky]

2 hours ago, Snake said:

Chuba Hubbard.

He's definitely my offensive sleeper. Daviyon Nixon on defense. Toss up between who makes the bigger impact. Depends on injuries.

[mccjeff]

5 hours ago, SBBlue said:

Attack Shorts

 

Sorry, I don't have the time to read all of this but were you guys arguing about Attack Shorts? This place has gotten so weird.