REPORT: No movement in Panthers’ talks w/ Taylor Moton

[AU-panther]

19 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Folks, giving a player what he wants does not make you a winner.  Most teams that overpay underperform.  Do your homework.  This is going to be tough, but a RT is worth a RT salary.

So what is RT salary?  Do we know for sure he is asking for LT salary?  Do we know for sure the team hasn't discussed the idea of him playing LT?  Ramczyk just got 19m, maybe that is what he asking for.

Either way, OTs are important and expensive.  Also this idea of the LTs being extremely more important and valuable is a bit dated.  RT salaries seem to be getting closer every year.

OT, left and right are both valuable positions in today's NFL.

Elite OTs, left and right, are hard to find.

Elite OTs, even if you find them are expensive in free agency.

If you are fortunate to have one pay them market, and be happy.

You are correct that you can't pay top contracts to everyone on your team, but if you have a elite player at an important, hard to replace position, you pay them. 

How many elite players do you really think we have?  Paying elite players isn't what hurts teams.  Most teams really don't have that many elite players.  Its overpaying the average or below average players that adds up.

What you hope, if you have one tackle on a big contract, you find a way to fill the other spot cheaply, best case you draft one and have a cheap fixed rookie deal for 4 years.  Personally I think a team should be drafting OTs at least once every few years.  That way you constantly have one on a rookie deal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SizzleBuzz]

22 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

You do realize there are 31 other teams out there. Many are looking for Tackle help. And many of them have money to spend.

If a player is under contract to the Panthers the other 31 teams are irrelevant.

22 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

You can only tag a guy 3 times. By then you will have paid 110%, 120%, and 141%. Way more than what a 4 or 5 year contract would pay.

Correct.  At some point hopefully a deal that's fair to both parties can be worked out...but if not keep tagging him.  I'd be interested to see the 3-year aggregate tag-numbers vs. a "4 or 5 year contract"...do you have them?

22 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

14 hours ago, SizzleBuzz said:

"Fitt" is not in charge...

...at a minimum he is 3rd in line.

 

This is not true.

Sure it is.

23 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

You do understand that Players do not like being Tagged? And yet, you not only want to tag Moton once, you want to do it 3 times? And then expect him to not only be happy about it, but play his ass off as well?

Yeah, that probably ain't happening.

The rules of the game are clear and personally I don't care if a player "likes" being tagged or not.

I didn't say "I want" to tag Moton 3 times...but I am of the belief the team shouldn't be afraid to do so.  It's a complex negotiation and the team should be prepared to use all the tools at their disposal to help them secure the best possible contract to benefit the entire team.  This is exactly why the Patriots are so successful...

I don't believe Moton is a quitter who would dog it because he is unhappy with his contract, sounds like you do.

[Basbear]

On 7/10/2021 at 1:05 PM, Khaki Lackey said:

No, just conjecture on my part since we can’t seem to get a deal done. 

 

On 7/10/2021 at 12:24 PM, ladypanther said:

You have a source for that statement?

I heard that long ago, I thought for sure the huddle had a small thread on the report. I could not find the thread cause search function is _________ and I looked around twitter some, no luck either. I swear Joe Person or Brent Jensen or a lesser known reported this, I feel it was about two years ago. The wording was like " Moton's team is asking for LT money and the panthers are reluctant to do so". Then in the discussion someone talked about Herniay never paying RT and listed a few example like keeping Bell for 5 years and Remmers for a few as well, at low salary.  

[RumHam]

On 7/9/2021 at 3:40 PM, Anybodyhome said:

Which is the precise reason this team cannot be a consistent winner.

Examine the rosters of perennial contenders in the NFL and you'll see offensive lines who have lived, worked and played together for years, maybe losing a guy here and there along the way. The Panthers, in the meantime, have the proverbial revolving door along their O-lines and every series CMC steps into the huddle, he's looking to see who's playing left guard for the next 4 downs. 

Watch him start at LT and ball out, all of a sudden his asking price goes up more. Franchise is right decision.

[Peon Awesome]

2 hours ago, SizzleBuzz said:

At some point hopefully a deal that's fair to both parties can be worked out...but if not keep tagging him.  I'd be interested to see the 3-year aggregate tag-numbers vs. a "4 or 5 year contract"...do you have them?

I was doing the calculations the other day. Comes out to about a 3 year, $54 million contract if I did the math right. And 2 years is only $30 million roughly. If Moton's agent is expecting us to match the Ramczyk contract, at the very least tagging twice seems to be the most financially prudent decision for now. Hard to know how far off the numbers are but I suspect that's the hold up. 

[iamhubby1]

2 hours ago, SizzleBuzz said:

If a player is under contract to the Panthers the other 31 teams are irrelevant.

Correct.  At some point hopefully a deal that's fair to both parties can be worked out...but if not keep tagging him.  I'd be interested to see the 3-year aggregate tag-numbers vs. a "4 or 5 year contract"...do you have them?

Sure it is.

The rules of the game are clear and personally I don't care if a player "likes" being tagged or not.

I didn't say "I want" to tag Moton 3 times...but I am of the belief the team shouldn't be afraid to do so.  It's a complex negotiation and the team should be prepared to use all the tools at their disposal to help them secure the best possible contract to benefit the entire team.  This is exactly why the Patriots are so successful...

I don't believe Moton is a quitter who would dog it because he is unhappy with his contract, sounds like you do.

 

@Jon Snowsaid he would hate to lose Moton over a few million dollars. You said "Lose him to exactly whom.", I said any number of teams. Now you are saying something different. lol

 

You don't care if a player is happy or not? Fug em right? 

 

Again, another Huddle staple of putting words in people's mouths. 

 

There are a poo ton more players that have bitched about being tagged, players threatening to hold out, players actually holding out. Yeah those guys are happy. Doesn't make them quitters. That is from your own words.

[SizzleBuzz]

1 hour ago, iamhubby1 said:

@Jon Snowsaid he would hate to lose Moton over a few million dollars. You said "Lose him to exactly whom.", I said any number of teams. Now you are saying something different. lol

The risk of "losing him" anytime in the next 3 seasons is exactly 0.00%.  No need to fret about it.

 

1 hour ago, iamhubby1 said:

You don't care if a player is happy or not? Fug em right? 

I'd prefer they be happy but certainly wouldn't let some pouting by the player affect the negotiations.

Belichick consistently gets the best contracts for his team and it's because he has a long track record of being ruthless --- those on the other side of a negotiation know he's not one to be trifled with and doesn't GAF if a player pouts or not.  

 

1 hour ago, iamhubby1 said:

Again, another Huddle staple of putting words in people's mouths. 

No idea what you're talking about.

 

1 hour ago, iamhubby1 said:

There are a poo ton more players that have bitched about being tagged, players threatening to hold out, players actually holding out. Yeah those guys are happy. Doesn't make them quitters. That is from your own words.

Don't care about the bitching, f-em.

The hold-out narrative is a false narrative.  The only guy dumb enough to actually do it was L. Bell and it worked out horribly for him.  The money is too big now...

If a player dogs it because he got tagged he's a quitter...and I'm not aware any who have done so. 

(and doing so would only hurt their ability to negotiate going forward)

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by SizzleBuzz

[iamhubby1]

3 minutes ago, SizzleBuzz said:

The risk of "losing him" anytime in the next 3 seasons is exactly 0.00%.  No need to fret about it.

 

I'd prefer they be happy but certainly wouldn't let some pouting by the player affect the negotiations.

Belichick consistently gets the best contracts for his team and it's because he has a long track record of being ruthless --- those on the other side of a negotiation know he's not one to be trifled with and doesn't GAF if a player pouts or not.  

 

No idea what you're talking about.

 

Don't care about the bitching, f-em.

The hold-out narrative is a false narrative.  The only guy dumb enough to actually do it was L. Bell and it worked out horribly for him.  The money is too big now...

If a player dogs it because he got tagged he's a quitter...and I'm not aware any who have done so. 

(and doing so would only hurt their ability to negotiate going forward)

 

 

Okay folks, quit fretting. Moton will be staying here for at least the next 3 years. Sheeew, that's a relief.

 

Bellicheat had Brady. That was his secret strategy. He got rid of players, instead of paying them. Because for years, Brady had the highest salary in the league. Let's see how that works now that Brady is gone.

 

Players hold out all the damm time. Hellz, Billicheat is dealing with one right now, so are the Cheeseheads.

 

Treat players like crap, and it gets out. But hey, if you want to run your team that way. Have at it. But you had better build a winner, or players will avoid you.

[iamhubby1]

4 hours ago, SizzleBuzz said:

 

Correct.  At some point hopefully a deal that's fair to both parties can be worked out...but if not keep tagging him.  I'd be interested to see the 3-year aggregate tag-numbers vs. a "4 or 5 year contract"...do you have them?

 

On the Tag. If my math is correct, which I am not guaranteeing. We pay Moton 13.754m this year, 16.753m next year, and 23.106m after that. For a total of 53.614m. All guaranteed. That's an average of 17.871m.

 

I see where at RT, Moton has the 4th highest avg. salary this year. 

[SizzleBuzz]

53 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

Players hold out all the damm time. Hellz, Billicheat is dealing with one right now, so are the Cheeseheads.

It's not a "holdout" until they start sacrificing game checks --period.   

53 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

Treat players like crap, and it gets out. But hey, if you want to run your team that way. Have at it. But you had better build a winner, or players will avoid you.

Stop w/ the whiny "hurt feelings" BS.  

Negotiating from a position of strength by using all the tools at your disposal in no way constitutes "treating players like crap".

Hell sounds like you want Hurney back

[Basbear]

22 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

On the Tag. If my math is correct, which I am not guaranteeing. We pay Moton 13.754m this year, 16.753m next year, and 23.106m after that. For a total of 53.614m. All guaranteed. That's an average of 17.871m.

 

I see where at RT, Moton has the 4th highest avg. salary this year. 

Pass on that 3rd year tag. Its a tool for the.....well smart GMs to use. Think about it back-to-back tags is a bargain. I mean a few big money deals only last two as well. Just after two years Moton is closer to death's door of the NFL= 30 years old. Yea OL do/can play a little longer, still right now its looking like the smart play for the panthers is two year tag. Then they have the chance at finally agreeing to a deal or getting an 3rd comp.  

[saX man]

I don't place the hiearchy of spending LT-1 and then the rest these days.  We run a spread offense and he's a perfect guy for us.  Bred in house.  This is the moment where you decide to really make him a Panther long term or not.  I'd love to see it and at least lock something up on this OL.  Discounting Paradis as the likely center, all other spots are up for grabs right now.  

Moton is worth 14.75 in my book and it's totally worth it.  I mean he's a 26 year old top-5 guy at his position group.  I'd like to see us get this done.

Next step would be identifying a long term Center and LT.  Maybe we got lucky and have some now.  There's finally some promising pieces at the least:

Taylor Moton RT/LT, Brady Christensen RG/RT, Dennis Daley G/T, & David Moore G/C could be a good group.  And John Miller is only 27.  Wouldn't mind locking him up longer term if he shows well for us again.  

Three big "ifs" could make or break the unit:

-If Dennis Daley proves the last 1.5 years was an injury aberration

-If Christensen proves to be a plug and play (wherever that is)

-If Moore (UDFA) or Brown (6th) surprise.

Those are my biggies to watch for beyond these vets we brought in like Erving and the Elf guy. 

[iamhubby1]

1 hour ago, SizzleBuzz said:

It's not a "holdout" until they start sacrificing game checks --period.   

Stop w/ the whiny "hurt feelings" BS.  

Negotiating from a position of strength by using all the tools at your disposal in no way constitutes "treating players like crap".

Hell sounds like you want Hurney back

 

lol Whatever you say. I'm done. 

[iamhubby1]

1 hour ago, saX man said:

I don't place the hiearchy of spending LT-1 and then the rest these days.  We run a spread offense and he's a perfect guy for us.  Bred in house.  This is the moment where you decide to really make him a Panther long term or not.  I'd love to see it and at least lock something up on this OL.  Discounting Paradis as the likely center, all other spots are up for grabs right now.  

Moton is worth 14.75 in my book and it's totally worth it.  I mean he's a 26 year old top-5 guy at his position group.  I'd like to see us get this done.

Next step would be identifying a long term Center and LT.  Maybe we got lucky and have some now.  There's finally some promising pieces at the least:

Taylor Moton RT/LT, Brady Christensen RG/RT, Dennis Daley G/T, & David Moore G/C could be a good group.  And John Miller is only 27.  Wouldn't mind locking him up longer term if he shows well for us again.  

Three big "ifs" could make or break the unit:

-If Dennis Daley proves the last 1.5 years was an injury aberration

-If Christensen proves to be a plug and play (wherever that is)

-If Moore (UDFA) or Brown (6th) surprise.

Those are my biggies to watch for beyond these vets we brought in like Erving and the Elf guy. 

 

Here's how I would do it. 

LT-Moton

LG-Let the best man win

C-Paradis to start. Moore to groom

LG-Miller

RT-BChris

But that could leave a hole at LG, at worse case

 

Or

LT-May the best man win

LG-BChris

C-Paradis to start, Moore to groom

RG-Miller

RT-Moton

But that could leave a hole at LT. Although, we do have Tremble to help

 

Man, I love this time of year.