Cam Erving

[KatsAzz]

We can never have too much offensive line depth, so if Cam Erving gets beat out as a starter he provides really nice depth for when we need a fill-in for one of the starters at tackle or guard.

[frankw]

7 hours ago, SBBlue said:

5mil a year for a swing tackle who performed well last year.

I hope he works out for us but let's at least be accurate about that tidbit.

https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2021/03/17/panthers-pat-elflein-cameron-erving-pff-grades/amp/

[SBBlue]

2 hours ago, frankw said:

I hope he works out for us but let's at least be accurate about that tidbit.

https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2021/03/17/panthers-pat-elflein-cameron-erving-pff-grades/amp/

Did you read the OP?  

[frankw]

16 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

Did you read the OP?  

You said he performed well last year I refuted it with fact based information.

[SBBlue]

26 minutes ago, frankw said:

You said he performed well last year I refuted it with fact based information.

The OP already states his PFF was bad.  

What you skipped:

"

Erving allowed just one sack and eight total pressure per Pro Football Focus. To put that into perspective, he allowed a pressure on just 5% of his pass-blocking snaps. .... All-Pro Guard Zack Martin allowed a pressure on 7.7% of his snaps.

....

Erving had fewer penalties and sacks per snap than Okung last year with only 8 pressures in five games. 

"

 

 

[Michael G]

Cam Erving has performed well in spots it seems. He has the physical attributes to be very good and a great draft pedigree. He is another reclamation project by this staff, that seems to believe that they can turn good athletes into quality players in their system. This staff really believes they can coach people up. I hope they are right! It will be interesting to see how many of these reclamation projects work (Darnold, Erving, Elf, etc..) They did not have much luck with last years' reclamation projects (Eli Apple, Teddy B.,  maybe Schofield fits into this category).

 

[frankw]

25 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

The OP already states his PFF was bad.  

What you skipped:

"

Erving allowed just one sack and eight total pressure per Pro Football Focus. To put that into perspective, he allowed a pressure on just 5% of his pass-blocking snaps. .... All-Pro Guard Zack Martin allowed a pressure on 7.7% of his snaps.

....

Erving had fewer penalties and sacks per snap than Okung last year with only 8 pressures in five games. 

"

That is an impressive plus I hope he can replicate. But you may want to dig a little deeper into that. Specifically sample size. Erving only had 279 snaps. Even Martin whom you chose to compare had double that with 618. In 2019 when he had 589 snaps more comparable with Martin he allowed 5 sacks and had 7 penalties. If he is going to live up to his contract he will be seeing significantly more snaps. I'm all for hoping he will improve but we don't need to cook the books here to convince ourselves. The data is there and some of it is good some of it not so good. That's the kind of ol signing Carolina has been known for let's see if it works out.

Edited July 18, 2021 by frankw

[SBBlue]

Just now, Michael G said:

They did not have much luck with last years' reclamation projects (Eli Apple, Teddy B.,  maybe Schofield fits into this category).

 

"Not much" is fair, though I'd probably say "some luck."

 I think the results were mixed. 

Apple (injury), Whitehead were total misses.

Boston and Okung (injury) declined.

 Schofield and Miller were mixed to different degrees.

Teddy, Davis, and Robby all had career years.

 

 

[SBBlue]

1 hour ago, frankw said:

That is an impressive plus I hope he can replicate. But you may want to dig a little deeper into that. Specifically sample size. Erving only had 279 snaps. 

The OP addresses that too.

"He played fewer snaps than Okung last year as a swing tackle in Dallas.  "

5 mil a year is not pay for a season long LT with a 5% pressure rate and I don't expect it.   (Its 38% of what we paid Okung btw.) There's a lot of variables about where and how much he plays.  My  point was, when he played, he played well last year.   

Edited July 18, 2021 by SBBlue

[frankw]

3 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

The OP addresses that too.

"He played fewer snaps than Okung last year as a swing tackle in Dallas.  "

5 mil a year is not pay for a season long LT with a 5% pressure rate and I don't expect it.   (Its 38% of what we paid Okung btw.) There's a lot of variables about where and how much he plays.  My  point was, when he played, he played well last year.   

5 million a year may not buy you a season long left tackle but it isn't chump change either. We are just throwing darts but he has to stay somewhat healthy for any of this discussion to matter. I don't have a pff sub so I can't see details but he had a grade of 58 last year so that's not great and not terrible. I mean I don't know what the standard is you're looking for here. Our undisputed worst free agent signing in history Matt Kalil had a grade of 62.4 in 2017. Is that playing well? Maybe I'm being too hard on the guy but I just don't want to see Sam running for his life or on his ass.

[Michael G]

7 hours ago, SBBlue said:

Teddy, Davis, and Robby all had career years.

I don't really see Robby and Mike Davis has reclamation projections (I was thinking of guys drafted on day 1 or 2) and Teddy's career year wasn't really a success (especially the 0-8 with the game on the line part). I guess it all depends on what criteria we are using.

[SBBlue]

On 7/18/2021 at 1:58 PM, frankw said:

5 million a year may not buy you a season long left tackle but it isn't chump change either. We are just throwing darts but he has to stay somewhat healthy for any of this discussion to matter. I don't have a pff sub so I can't see details but he had a grade of 58 last year so that's not great and not terrible. I mean I don't know what the standard is you're looking for here. Our undisputed worst free agent signing in history Matt Kalil had a grade of 62.4 in 2017. Is that playing well? Maybe I'm being too hard on the guy but I just don't want to see Sam running for his life or on his ass.

We went through 5 left tackles last year.  Unless Moton moves to LT, we're going to see a couple this year.  Erving is paid like a swing tackle or guard, not a starting LT.  He may start day 1  at LT but I think the coaches don't believe he will stay there....his contract, pay and performance last year fit that bill.

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by SBBlue

[AU-panther]

 

16 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

We went through 5 left tackles last year.  Unless Moton moves to LT, we're going to see a couple this year.  Erving is paid like a swing tackle or guard, not a starting LT.  He may start day 1  at LT but I think the coaches don't believe he will stay there....his contract, pay and performance last year fit that bill.

 

#32 is $2.5m based on average.  His contract is $5m.  He would actually slot it at #21

Left Tackle Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap

 

Fans tend to think of the top-5 contracts as being average when they aren't.

Also he has the 13th highest cap hit on the team this year.

If he starts and plays well he is a bargain compared to the top LTs in the game but not all of the starters.  Conversely if he doesn't start or plays poorly he is a terrible deal.

 

[SBBlue]

10 minutes ago, stbugs said:

People keep saying he got backup money but he didn’t. Based on the contract value alone it’s starting tackle pay (don’t forget there are 64 starters) and based on his past performance that’s starter money. Same with Elflein, he’s being paid to be a starter, doesn’t mean he won’t be beat out but those two got double/triple what Scott and Miller got, which is more backup level money, in the $1.5M range.

We paid Matt Kalil 25M for 1 year.

We just signed Moton at  17M/yr  5 yr.

We paid Okung 13M/yr 1year.

We are paying Erving 5M/yr  2 yr.

Yes there are many starting tackles making 5/yr or less, but MOST are on their rookie contracts.   

5M/yr is expensive for a swing tackle and cheap for a starting left tackle.