Offseason Breaking non-news

[Khyber53]

2 hours ago, SBBlue said:

 

Even if the D doesn't perform, I'd be surprised if Rhule let him go.

 

Honestly, if the D lays another egg AND the offense ends up sputtering again, it may not be about Rhule letting Snow go, it may be both of them carrying their bags out the door. Yes, I know Rhule has a long contract but if he posts another losing season in a row, then people are going to start calling for his head.

I like the guy, he says all the right things, he has a good college track record behind him, he's made some bold moves. It should all work out, but...

Sometimes great college coaches move to the NFL and the magic doesn't follow. The list of two and done former college HCs in the NFL is a really long one. Rarely do they get the chance to have three losing seasons in a row, no matter the contract or how beloved they are to their players. Teams often just eat the contract and move on.

If you don't think Rhule knows that he's staring down the barrel of a gun right now. He's going to be compared to the crop of other first timers hired that season as well. Cleveland's Stefanski turned that team right around (they had talent on paper at least). Joe Judge pulled off one more win than we did, in a weak division but with notably worse players and similar injuries. If you add in Mike McCarthy and Ron Rivera as new coaches taking over teams, both amazingly had a better record than we did (and a losing record playoff berth for Rivera) while both teams had serious injuries and debacles at QB (and while personally battling cancer for Rivera). 

In a no excuses business like the NFL, that win-loss thing is important. Seeing signs of a turnaround can get you past that first year, but if you're at the end of your second season with a losing record and people are "seeing signs of a turnaround" it doesn't take long before someone at the boardroom table brings up the very real question, "Could an experienced NFL coach take these guys and do better with them?" 

In this "what have you done for me lately?" league, Rivera was just a season and a half removed from an 11-5 season (plus playoff appearance) before he was given the pink slip. And Rivera had coached the team to the Super Bowl just four years prior. When the writing was on the wall that things weren't getting better, they jettisoned him. The same happened to Fox before him. And honestly, the same happens to almost every NFL head coach at some point. Rhule, for all the contracts and guarantees, lives under that sword of Damocles.

Hey, I want the 2021 Carolina Panthers to come out and win the division, tear their way through the playoffs and contend for the championship, I'd be estatic. I'd be mighty happy if they just make the playoffs and win one or two. I'd be satisfied with a simple winning record. Short of that, I don't think anyone is going to be thinking Rhule will be here for long. 

Meh just ain't going to cut it. 

[ForJimmy]

3 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

They played soft across the entire defense. We weren't exactly stopping the running games either...

They were soft. The defensive game plan was soft. We had multiple games where the opposing team never had to make their punter get off the bench. 

I mean we had a 5th round rookie in Roy playing significant minutes with YGM, and Brown both being rookies (I know they were higher picks, but there is still a learning curve). If the RB gets past the line there were Whitehead and a another rookie in Chinn on the next level. I honestly think he had no other option than to play it soft and let the young players develop.

[SBBlue]

50 minutes ago, bigdavis said:

Our run defense will be vastly improved with the DT rotation we've now got, and the exponentially better Perryman in the middle, compared to that toreador we put out there last year (you could hear him yell, "Ole!", as the RBs ran by.)

I agree.

That said, if Perryman gets hurt, which he tends to do, who's next...Fisher?  Burns, as awesome as he is...is not strong against the run.   Safety doesn't look awesome either.

Teams find weakness and exploit them.  

It is reasonable to expect the D to improve over last year.  But last year we expected the offense to look pretty good and the D to decline.    The O did look pretty good, until we got to the RZ or the 4th quarter, or the last 4 games, where the wheels fell off.

Some things just happen and just don't make sense.  All we can hope for is that management makes the correct calculated moves and coaches get the best out of these players.  And from what I've seen Rhule>RR and Fit>>>>>>>Hurney.

 

[LinvilleGorge]

31 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

Honestly, if the D lays another egg AND the offense ends up sputtering again, it may not be about Rhule letting Snow go, it may be both of them carrying their bags out the door. Yes, I know Rhule has a long contract but if he posts another losing season in a row, then people are going to start calling for his head.

I like the guy, he says all the right things, he has a good college track record behind him, he's made some bold moves. It should all work out, but...

Sometimes great college coaches move to the NFL and the magic doesn't follow. The list of two and done former college HCs in the NFL is a really long one. Rarely do they get the chance to have three losing seasons in a row, no matter the contract or how beloved they are to their players. Teams often just eat the contract and move on.

If you don't think Rhule knows that he's staring down the barrel of a gun right now. He's going to be compared to the crop of other first timers hired that season as well. Cleveland's Stefanski turned that team right around (they had talent on paper at least). Joe Judge pulled off one more win than we did, in a weak division but with notably worse players and similar injuries. If you add in Mike McCarthy and Ron Rivera as new coaches taking over teams, both amazingly had a better record than we did (and a losing record playoff berth for Rivera) while both teams had serious injuries and debacles at QB (and while personally battling cancer for Rivera). 

In a no excuses business like the NFL, that win-loss thing is important. Seeing signs of a turnaround can get you past that first year, but if you're at the end of your second season with a losing record and people are "seeing signs of a turnaround" it doesn't take long before someone at the boardroom table brings up the very real question, "Could an experienced NFL coach take these guys and do better with them?" 

In this "what have you done for me lately?" league, Rivera was just a season and a half removed from an 11-5 season (plus playoff appearance) before he was given the pink slip. And Rivera had coached the team to the Super Bowl just four years prior. When the writing was on the wall that things weren't getting better, they jettisoned him. The same happened to Fox before him. And honestly, the same happens to almost every NFL head coach at some point. Rhule, for all the contracts and guarantees, lives under that sword of Damocles.

Hey, I want the 2021 Carolina Panthers to come out and win the division, tear their way through the playoffs and contend for the championship, I'd be estatic. I'd be mighty happy if they just make the playoffs and win one or two. I'd be satisfied with a simple winning record. Short of that, I don't think anyone is going to be thinking Rhule will be here for long. 

Meh just ain't going to cut it. 

How did the D lay an egg last year? Everyone expected that unit to be near the bottom of the league. Finishing middle of the pack was significant exceeding expectations.

Rhule may or may not end up working out, but Tepper is in love. His seat won't start getting warm for at least another year.

 

[SBBlue]

30 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

Meh just ain't going to cut it. 

I think Rhule believes this too, which is why we are taking big risks with  Darnold, trading down to acquire more talent, and moneyballing the oline to put resources in the D and O weaponry.  

He's trying to win now.

If Darnold, the Oline rookies, Horn, Reddick, and Perryman stay healthy and ball out, we're a winning team.

[Khyber53]

56 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I mean we had a 5th round rookie in Roy playing significant minutes with YGM, and Brown both being rookies (I know they were higher picks, but there is still a learning curve). If the RB gets past the line there were Whitehead and a another rookie in Chinn on the next level. I honestly think he had no other option than to play it soft and let the young players develop.

Meh. Yeah, but that's part of the game. I get what you are saying, but in the end, they don't spot a team points because their guys aren't as good.

[Khyber53]

51 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

How did the D lay an egg last year? Everyone expected that unit to be near the bottom of the league. Finishing middle of the pack was significant exceeding expectations.

Rhule may or may not end up working out, but Tepper is in love. His seat won't start getting warm for at least another year.

 

Bottom of the league and a losing season, whether expected or not, is laying an egg. 

Tepper's a billionaire. He can trade out a coach faster than a wife. Love is fickle when your bank accounts all have multiple commas.

[Khyber53]

49 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

I think Rhule believes this too, which is why we are taking big risks with  Darnold, trading down to acquire more talent, and moneyballing the oline to put resources in the D and O weaponry.  

He's trying to win now.

If Darnold, the Oline rookies, Horn, Reddick, and Perryman stay healthy and ball out, we're a winning team.

Yep, he is. I hope it works out for us, I really do. 

I'm just saying, again and again, he's going to have to show more than "promise" next year. 

[GRWatcher]

3 hours ago, SBBlue said:

I think Rhule believes this too, which is why we are taking big risks with  Darnold, trading down to acquire more talent, and moneyballing the oline to put resources in the D and O weaponry.  

He's trying to win now.

If Darnold, the Oline rookies, Horn, Reddick, and Perryman stay healthy and ball out, we're a winning team.

lol that's not anything the other 31 coaches aren't doing. I want us to be perennial winners whatever it takes. We have the talent; we need coaches that can stop coaching like it's college ball.

[ForJimmy]

2 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

Meh. Yeah, but that's part of the game. I get what you are saying, but in the end, they don't spot a team points because their guys aren't as good.

25.1 points allowed and 360 yards out us right in the middle of the league. With our talent, that would be overachieving in my books.

[Madwolf]

I think our secondary will be better, but not great. I think Horn will be the real deal, and everyone else will kind of be as expected.

However, that with a better defensive line will translate to a secondary that plays above what it should as well.

[iamhubby1]

12 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

They played soft across the entire defense. We weren't exactly stopping the running games either...

They were soft. The defensive game plan was soft. We had multiple games where the opposing team never had to make their punter get off the bench. 

 

I don't think you are giving last years team enough credit. With what little talent they had, that D played it's heart out. Calling them soft is extremely disingenuous if you ask me.

 

8 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

Bottom of the league and a losing season, whether expected or not, is laying an egg. 

Tepper's a billionaire. He can trade out a coach faster than a wife. Love is fickle when your bank accounts all have multiple commas.

 

Laying an egg? let's not overreact. Last years team played about as well as a team in the 1st year of a rebuild should play. You may expect more, but that is on you. Most were pleasantly surprised with last years D.

 

8 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

Yep, he is. I hope it works out for us, I really do. 

I'm just saying, again and again, he's going to have to show more than "promise" next year. 

 

Just because you repeat yourself until you are blue in the face. Does not make you right. Rhule, and Fitt have a few years left in the bank. I'm sure they have a shot at continuing to build this team.

 

After all, this is only Rhule's 2nd year, and 1st with Fitt. Saying they are on any seat, is a bit premature. IMO.

[Khyber53]

5-11 is 5-11, no matter how you slice it. Of all the coaches hired on new to start the season last year, Rhule and Co. had the worst record. We can wax and polish it all we want, but that 5-11 finish is what is in the record book, there's no asterisk going to be placed on it, there's no makeup test.

I don't want us to have another losing season in 2021 and I'm not even predicting one. I am, however, warning that public and ownership opinion on our head coach will most likely change greatly if we pull up last in the NFCSouth or post a losing record again. 

[ForJimmy]

People need to be more patient after one year of a rebuild. Our roster was gutted and we had a first year coach with a bunch of rookies. 5-11 was a solid record all things considered. I mean 7 teams (over a fifth of the league) had a worse year…