Jets vs. Panthers vs. Jags

[BrianS]

40 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

It also points out to how hard it is to build a consistently successful NFL team and how those teams need to be set in amongst some really bad competition. There are just a handful of them and they continually put space in the wins/losses column between themselves and everyone else.

Just think of the Patriots. How many years, decades, have they been feasting off of the truly horrible teams in their division? The Colts did the same during the Manning years. The Packers have played in the second weakest division for two decades. 

The Panthers have been in a division with relative parity, where the last 20 years have them all close to an 8-8 average record. Similar situations can be seen in the NFCWest and AFCWest, and the NFCEast has been a paragon of parity for just lousy teams over that span.

 

Then how do you explain the Ravens and Steelers - teams in the same division mind you - who have 15 winning seasons each out of the last 20?  Yes, the Bengals and Browns have been bad.  But that's only 25% of the schedule for the Ravens and Steelers.

The strength of your division isn't really all that crucial to winning seasons overall.  Two thirds of your schedule is outside your division.  

I do agree that playing in a weak division does make it easier to get to the playoffs.  But that's not the case with the Packers.  The Packers division has had two teams reach the playoffs 11 of the last 20 years.

Successful organizations succeed regardless of the teams around them.  

 

[kungfoodude]

50 minutes ago, rayzor said:

I'm not sure what anyone is arguing, but I'm of the opinion on we don't get to call ourselves a young franchise anymore. Younger than most others, yes. Young, no.

We have had several different iterations and culture changes over the past few decades.We have not been a successful organization. More successful than some others, but not what I would call successful.

We have not ever had two consecutive winning seasons.

We have had 7 winning seasons in 27 years. Sorry, that's not success and if you consider that successful, you need to check your metrics and raise your standards.

We have a chance for a new start with a very young team and hopefully this is when we get it right. I feel like it could be.

But we have earned every bit of disrespect we receive. Based on our past and our (lack of) accomplishments, there is very little evidence that we can get it right, despite the new start. 

A new start matters only for us. In the eyes of everyone else, we're still the same old panthers. The burden of proof is on the panther's shoulders to prove we are not that team anymore.

Yeah, I don't understand the need for revisionist history or denial. I have been there for the whole ride, the good, the bad and the ugly.

As a Panthers fan, I will remain skeptical because of who we have been. But, it's easy to be hopeful about the core we are building on the team. Perhaps this is indeed the regime to bring us to consistent success. 

Either way, I think all of the Panther OG's feel the same way. Just waiting and watching for that time to come.

[LinvilleGorge]

31 minutes ago, BrianS said:

Then how do you explain the Ravens and Steelers - teams in the same division mind you - who have 15 winning seasons each out of the last 20?  Yes, the Bengals and Browns have been bad.  But that's only 25% of the schedule for the Ravens and Steelers.

The strength of your division isn't really all that crucial to winning seasons overall.  Two thirds of your schedule is outside your division.  

I do agree that playing in a weak division does make it easier to get to the playoffs.  But that's not the case with the Packers.  The Packers division has had two teams reach the playoffs 11 of the last 20 years.

Successful organizations succeed regardless of the teams around them.  

 

When 25% of your schedule year over year is straight trash that's a significant competitive advantage. That division has just historically been two of the best ran franchises in the NFL against two of the worst ran franchises in the NFL and the results have conveyed what would be expected.

[bababoey]

5 hours ago, CRA said:

I don’t even think the Lions have won a postseason game since we became a team.

this is also a nice reference.  Not your criteria though but it ranks teams by wins from 2000-2020.  Last 2 decades.   Carolina is at 18th place.  Not great.  Not the gutter though. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thelistwire.usatoday.com/lists/ranking-all-32-nfl-teams-by-records-from-2000-2020-dallas-cowboys-new-england-patriots-green-bay-packers-pittsburgh-steelers-baltimore-ravens/amp/

The Lions have won 1 playoff game since 1957.  Everyone complains how bad we are on here.  You really want to complain how bad a team is, go root for the Lions

[jayboogieman]

6 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Point Blank: I don't really give a sh-t.

Who the team is historically has no bearing on an organization that has new ownership, a new GM and a new head coach.

I disagree. Old ownership or new, it hasn't mattered. Under the current owner and both coaches he has employed, the team has only posted losing seasons. The new GM gets a pass until they play the upcoming season.

[rayzor]

1 hour ago, jayboogieman said:

I disagree. Old ownership or new, it hasn't mattered. Under the current owner and both coaches he has employed, the team has only posted losing seasons. The new GM gets a pass until they play the upcoming season.

Not sure anyone really expected last season to be a winning one. last year was us taking the team down to the foundation. this year is when the rebuild happens. whether i should or not, i expect us not to have another losing season this year.

[LinvilleGorge]

33 minutes ago, rayzor said:

Not sure anyone really expected last season to be a winning one. last year was us taking the team down to the foundation. this year is when the rebuild happens. whether i should or not, i expect us not to have another losing season this year.

I will be pleasantly surprised if we don't have a losing season.

[BrianS]

4 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

When 25% of your schedule year over year is straight trash that's a significant competitive advantage. That division has just historically been two of the best ran franchises in the NFL against two of the worst ran franchises in the NFL and the results have conveyed what would be expected.

Toward what?  Sure if your division is trash you've got an easy road to the playoffs.  I said that was definitely the case.

What I don't buy is that being in a trash division makes you successful.  The successful teams aren't successful because they beat the dregs.  They are successful because they beat whoever is on their schedule every year. 

Remember, teams that win their division play 25% of their schedule against other teams that won their division last year.

[rayzor]

34 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I will be pleasantly surprised if we don't have a losing season.

i was going to say i see us going at the very least 8-8, but that isn't really an option anymore...unless we tie one. 

i think we squeak by with a winning season. biggest thing going in our favor is that we have a pretty weak schedule and we'll be throwing a lot of stuff offensively and defensively (esp. defensively) that teams will struggle to deal with. I could see us starting off strong and maybe slowing down as teams start to figure out what to do with us, but we get enough traction early on that we can pull off a (barely) winning season.

what will surprise me is getting to the playoffs. what would be even more surprising is not winning a few more games this year than last. 

[LinvilleGorge]

26 minutes ago, BrianS said:

Toward what?  Sure if your division is trash you've got an easy road to the playoffs.  I said that was definitely the case.

What I don't buy is that being in a trash division makes you successful.  The successful teams aren't successful because they beat the dregs.  They are successful because they beat whoever is on their schedule every year. 

Remember, teams that win their division play 25% of their schedule against other teams that won their division last year.

If you give me the choice of playing in a trash division vs. a competitive division, I'll pick the trash division every time. Step one is qualifying for the playoffs. A trash division makes that a lot easier.

[panthers55]

10 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Point Blank: I don't really give a sh-t.

Who the team is historically has no bearing on an organization that has new ownership, a new GM and a new head coach.

This.

[saX man]

We at least have teeth in defeat.  We've always been a "steady foundation" style franchise, with faults, but I mean, we surprised annual at Clemson, NFCC next year, we didn't start slow and that honestly shaped the non-fan perspective.  Then we only had limited stars until 03' happened.

A lot of teams (in early growth/inception to first "good" era") have these amazing talents (bc they drafted high) but the lack of talent dropped the potential.  They coalesce around maybe one dude rather than a team early bc you get that leader QB when you can high up.  We like never really had that but were always, meh.  But could still pull off the win.  This was the case until Fox/JakeSmitty/Defense, then of course we finally got the case of 2011s and start the Luke/Cam era. Capers and Seifert never really "happened".  They were a suburban Orange Theory.

I buy into this--there being 2 main non-Panther camps: one that's always known us as a competitive team (only rarely awful) and the other side is just like, "Yeah the Carolina guys.  They're okay sometimes.  I don't care"

We have never had a legit coach+gm combo and the only league storm-esque star was Cam.  

The Panthers have had about 4 truly "loser" lost seasons in all these years.  We are a mad roller coaster between below average and above average (with the rarer 2015s, 2012s, and 2003s).  We need to become that consistent crew and my personal philosophy is the right coach more than anything. 

I actually think we got a guy in Rhule.  He also is a very distinct type of dude but it's not a common stereotyped coach.  He's a straight shooter, non-patriarch mentality, more of a gang leader, and I like that he understands roles on the coaching-staffing level.  

Here's to optimism shitbags.

[jayboogieman]

11 hours ago, rayzor said:

Not sure anyone really expected last season to be a winning one. last year was us taking the team down to the foundation. this year is when the rebuild happens. whether i should or not, i expect us not to have another losing season this year.

Most people might not have expected a winning season at this time last year, but once the season started you had people talking playoffs until reality set in. Expectations change all the time, especially for the more emotional folks.

Teardown year, rebuild year, normal year, or whatever doesn't matter to the general public perception. All that matters to the nonhardcore Panther fans is that last season was more of the same.

[jayboogieman]

10 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I will be pleasantly surprised if we don't have a losing season.

Ditto