Brown among top rookies

[jramsey4]

Going into preseason, we had Jake Delhomme, Josh McCown, and Matt Moore. Delhomme was coming off a great 2008 season, with a meltdown in the playoffs that was arguably just as much about playcalling as anything. McCown has good starting experience, and Moore was getting another chance at being our future QB. We also added Cantwell to the roster.

Given that we had no chance to draft a QB high, and that Cutler was way too expensive given our situation with Peppers, what would you have Hurney do? It's not like he can go to the QB store and get a new one on a whim, even QBs at Jake's level are hard to find.

I agree with you that it is difficult to find a QB but thats why you keep looking. We haven't drafted but 2 QB's the entire time Fox/Hurney have been in control. You don't have to draft one in the 1st but at least draft some late rounders and see if you can develop them. If they have such little faith in Moore they should have went out and either drafted a guy late or a picked up a FA in the off-season (I mean off-season not pre-season, not AJoke Feely).

[Cyberjag]

You mean pick up a guy like Josh McCown?

We've been through this discussion time and again on these boards. Take a look at who they could have gotten and when, then decide if a waste of a pick to please the fans is good policy.

[Kevin Greene]

Given that we had no chance to draft a QB high, and that Cutler was way too expensive given our situation with Peppers, what would you have Hurney do? It's not like he can go to the QB store and get a new one on a whim, even QBs at Jake's level are hard to find.

Exactly why we should have sat tight with our 2nd round pick.

Hurney had just spent 16.7 million on Peppers, and had Charles Johnson and company already on the roster. With or without Brown I think our record today would be similar.

[carolinanimal]

I agree with you that it is difficult to find a QB but thats why you keep looking. We haven't drafted but 2 QB's the entire time Fox/Hurney have been in control. You don't have to draft one in the 1st but at least draft some late rounders and see if you can develop them. If they have such little faith in Moore they should have went out and either drafted a guy late or a picked up a FA in the off-season (I mean off-season not pre-season, not AJoke Feely).

Exactly. Whe have never brought in anyone to challenge delhomme! we have never drafted a guy over the 4th round under fox. and in his philosopy drafting a qb is not a priority. he hitched his caboose to jake ,a 35 year old mediocre qb with now options for the future.

[monstercat]

Brown is doing pretty doggone good for a rookie DE. You don't see many of them tearing up the NFL nowadays. The good ones' usually start to really show their stuff in year 2.

[MaineManPanther]

Exactly why we should have sat tight with our 2nd round pick.

Hurney had just spent 16.7 million on Peppers, and had Charles Johnson and company already on the roster. With or without Brown I think our record today would be similar.

We needed insurance on Peppers for the future. And know one knew how well Johnson would do. We needed to get DE at somepoint anyway. And if we did get a QB, chances that are record would be the same if not worse. If that rookie were to start.

[CharlotteBeer.com]

We have a top 5 defense, a top 5 OL, the best running attack in football, and we are 4-5. Ever stop to think that Hurney probably should have thought about QB?

Did I miss something?

[MaineManPanther]

we could have traded for culter or sanchez! they sure wouldnt turn the ball over like jake............ wait.........:willy_nilly:

the whole qb youth movement failed 2 years ago with david carr. we tried to get a qb, we got a shell shocked, glove wearing, carpet bagger.he was here for the money not to play.

what is more disturbing, the patchwork interior line is still a peice of poo. they may have been screwing around with the qb of the future poo for awhile now, but they let the interior line depth go to total poo. kemo went down and anyone including a fb can run on us.

brown helps the pass rush for sure, but dammit i wanted that 1st rounder to patch up the interior line. charles johnson and brayton can hold the fort down on the ends if peppers went down without brown here, but without kemo (or hell lewis) we had zero depth at dt. now this year is loaded at DT and we dont have a 1st rounder. suh was never gona happen unless he left last year, but mccoy (stretch), jones, austin (if he comes out), and cody might have been possible.

i like brown, but i still question if the cost to get a good DE this year is worth passing up on the DTs in the upcoming draft.

EDIT: and yes i understand that DT dont develope as quickly as DE. generally it takes a year or 2. but we are putting of the DT stuff just like the QB. for a physical minded team, we have a soft interior line that has been getting gashed way to often.

Its not like they couldve done much. They didnt have alot of money to get a decnet one in FA. And the draft we got brown with the Peppers situation. Then in the third round we got Ivrin. The only thing you really could argue was drafting Martin instead of a DT.

But now its a pretty moot point.Next year we have Kemo, Ivrin, Leonard all coming back from IR. We also have Lewis, Thomas, and newly accquired Tyler. It quite possibly could be a stregth next year.

[jramsey4]

Its not like they couldve done much. They didnt have alot of money to get a decnet one in FA. And the draft we got brown with the Peppers situation. Then in the third round we got Ivrin. The only thing you really could argue was drafting Martin instead of a DT.

But now its a pretty moot point.Next year we have Kemo, Ivrin, Leonard all coming back from IR. We also have Lewis, Thomas, and newly accquired Tyler. It quite possibly could be a stregth next year.

Considering we had no 1st round (and I don't think any of the QBs that went in the 1st were worth trading up for) I don't blame the FO for not picking one. What I do blame them is not drafting one in rounds 4-7? I really liked Tom Brandstater (6'5" with a rocket arm) he was picked up by Denver in the 6th, he is a project but he is very talented. If by now you don't think Moore is ready to start after 3 years in one system it might be time to cut him and put Cantwell on the 53.

[MaineManPanther]

Considering we had no 1st round (and I don't think any of the QBs that went in the 1st were worth trading up for) I don't blame the FO for not picking one. What I do blame them is not drafting one in rounds 4-7? I really liked Tom Brandster (6'5" with a rocket arm) he was picked up by Denver in the 6th, he is a project but he is very talented. If by now you don't think Moore is ready to start after 3 years in one season it might be time to cut him and put Cantwell on the 53.

I was talking about Dt's in the quoted post.

I semi agree, although Consider they had Mccown at the time. They really would only be drafting for third a Qb. I doubt many of those would pan out as a future. Although you could argue it was a low risk. But honestly I don't think it would have changed anything but maybe get a better emergency qb.

[OneBadassCat]

We have a top 5 defense, a top 5 OL, the best running attack in football, and we are 4-5. Ever stop to think that Hurney probably should have thought about QB?

We don't generate near enough pressure inside to be a top 5 defense. Top 10, Top 8 maybe but QBs are getting way too much time to throw.

[Kevin Greene]

Exactly why we should have sat tight with our 2nd round pick.

Hurney had just spent 16.7 million on Peppers, and had Charles Johnson and company already on the roster. With or without Brown I think our record today would be similar.

We needed insurance on Peppers for the future. And know one knew how well Johnson would do. We needed to get DE at somepoint anyway. And if we did get a QB, chances that are record would be the same if not worse. If that rookie were to start.

Last year was not the year to get a QB, 2007 would have been. One thing for sure, if we had our number 1 right now, we'd be sitting pretty.

[Raskle]

BTW where on Earth did you go to school?

I believe Klumme is from Denmark, so I would assume he went to school there. Not every fan on here has English as their primary language ya know?

:thumbsup:

[chbright]

Its not like they couldve done much. They didnt have alot of money to get a decnet one in FA. And the draft we got brown with the Peppers situation. Then in the third round we got Ivrin. The only thing you really could argue was drafting Martin instead of a DT.

But now its a pretty moot point.Next year we have Kemo, Ivrin, Leonard all coming back from IR. We also have Lewis, Thomas, and newly accquired Tyler. It quite possibly could be a stregth next year.

Hollis Thomas has a history of not finishing the season (but he didnt start this one, so maybe he makes it), also he isnt exactly a spring chicken to pin our dt hopes on. lewis is a decient UT. if we hope to stop the run next year, kemo better be back to his 07, 08 self. as for leonard, we again putting alot of faith in a guy that couldnt cut it with the browns. the DT situation might only be better than the QB one by a hair. we have no idea what we are getting next year. with qb, we atleast know it wont be pretty if we stand pat.

the dt depth was not just a problem entering this year, it was in 08. when kemo went down for the ny giants game this very problem was exposed. we had no backup plan in place in 08 and got away with it. this year no change and it bit hard. the fact we were put in this situation last year (we drafted hayden really....) and then draft another UT in irvin and we again had no plan to fix the interior line. drafting martin as a cb was unwise, he wasnt a CB, but a FS, in college and wasnt prepared to make the move to CB (and looked horrible as a CB so far in the nfl). if you drafted him as a FS, what about taking godfrey last year and extending harris? also what DT over martin, there wasnt anyone after brace and before sammie lee hill worth it at NT. hell sean smith should have been the CB to take, not martin.

irvin was a backup at UGA and never produced, but only saw the field in 08 becasue of injuries. we kinda got screwed into taking a flier once ron brace went off the board (good pick by the pats, higher than expected, but good pick none the less). sammie lee hill (body says good, level of comp questioned) was still avalible over irvin, same with the underachiving dorrell scott. last year was top heavy at dt, with no middle ground or depth. in fa, we didnt do poo until kemo went down and had to scramble. 2 straight years of poor planning by hurney when it came to the DT depth. the one place we had depth in TC in 07 with tony brown and javon haye quickly went to nonexsistant.

now instead of being able to get a DT in the 1st next year, we will again start looking at low end FA and mid tier guys in the draft to fill in and hope everything plays out. much like last year, we get to deal with peppers, and now TD as a FA. we wont have cash to go out and get a top DT again, and are banking on kemo being back to 100%, leonard being something other than a throw away by the browns if kemo isnt ready. we have lewis as the primary UT where we hope we dont have to go back to hayden. again this is shitty planning on the interior line depth by hurney and co.

the 2010 draft is loaded with a few good NT and a bevy of good UT. instead of beening able to nab one, we will have to hope one falls.

the identity of the team is run the ball, stop the run. we cant stop the run worth a damn, and brown wasnt the answer to that part of the defense. he is going to be a legit pass rusher in the league, but what does it matter when teams can plow ahead for 5+ yards a pop on the ground.