Snow's future with Carolina

[BrianS]

2 hours ago, jayboogieman said:

The Panthers have never had a shutdown corner. Gamble is still the best corner this team has ever had and he was far from being a shutdown corner.

I disagree.  Bradberry shut down Julio Jones, Mike Evans, Michael Thomas, etc more than often enough to earn the tag "shut down". 

Gamble certainly had the best PANTHERS career (as a whole career) of any CB who has ever played here.  Some folks might want to argue for Eric Davis, and he's another good shout but I think Gamble's body of work with the Panthers was better.

All that said, Josh Norman's 2015 dwarfed any season Gamble ever played.  In that year, anyone who tries to argue that JNo was anything less than a shutdown corner has an agenda.  He was amazing.

Not every corner can be Deion Sanders, Champ Bailey or Richard Sherman with many years of outstanding play.  That doesn't mean that in a given time and space they cannot be a shut down corner.  JNo certainly was for a brief period.  I believe James Bradberry did it for a year or two as well.

 

[BrianS]

20 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

I think you are way overselling it. We were not 18th on most statistics. Total yards surrendered might be the standard of comparison but it hardly is determinant of wins or losses. Bend don't break defenses try to limit the damage by stopping big plays which gives you middle of the road stats in many categories but like in interceptions or sacks you are always near the bottom as we were.  It doesn't make you good, it keeps you from being terrible. Like allowing over 50% of third down conversions and 60% of 4th down conversions.  That doesn't win games or shut down other offenses. We struggled getting off the field and that was due to the scheme.  Passive between the 20s and then gets more aggressive which already puts the opponent  in field goal range. While you blame the offense let's remember that you aren't going to win a ton of games if you give up almost 26 points a game. And we lost many of those 8 one score games because we couldn't stop teams from scoring as well couldn't score enough on our own. Snow was surely not a miracle worker and looked like a college coach trying to use his 3-5-3 college scheme which was awful. Hopefully with even more talent and now experience he can craft a legitimate defense  that dictates to others instead of  a weak bend til you break scheme we saw last year.

We were 18th in POINTS surrendered.

[Ivan The Awesome]

I think it's too early to be thinking about this.

[Clicheking]

1 hour ago, Pazhoosier89 said:

I wonder if that is why we see Evan Cooper with Rhule all the time. He's one of the only other coaches in the room with Rhule on Panthers confidential. Is he being groomed to replace Snow at DC when he retires in a couple years?

I literally said the same thing

 I wouldn't be surprised if Snow doesn't mentor him for another year or two, see's that we've got a culture established after we're top 10 in defensive and walks into the sunset

[DaveThePanther2008]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

I think you are way overselling it. We were not 18th on most statistics. Total yards surrendered might be the standard of comparison but it hardly is determinant of wins or losses. Bend don't break defenses try to limit the damage by stopping big plays which gives you middle of the road stats in many categories but like in interceptions or sacks you are always near the bottom as we were.  It doesn't make you good, it keeps you from being terrible. Like allowing over 50% of third down conversions and 60% of 4th down conversions.  That doesn't win games or shut down other offenses. We struggled getting off the field and that was due to the scheme.  Passive between the 20s and then gets more aggressive which already puts the opponent  in field goal range. While you blame the offense let's remember that you aren't going to win a ton of games if you give up almost 26 points a game. And we lost many of those 8 one score games because we couldn't stop teams from scoring as well couldn't score enough on our own. Snow was surely not a miracle worker and looked like a college coach trying to use his 3-5-3 college scheme which was awful. Hopefully with even more talent and now experience he can craft a legitimate defense  that dictates to others instead of  a weak bend til you break scheme we saw last year.

Something tells me that Snow is going to adapt and with the talent we have, we will have a good defense that will be in the upper half of the league.  Top 10 maybe but far better than 2020. 

[MechaZain]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

I think you are way overselling it. We were not 18th on most statistics. Total yards surrendered might be the standard of comparison but it hardly is determinant of wins or losses. Bend don't break defenses try to limit the damage by stopping big plays which gives you middle of the road stats in many categories but like in interceptions or sacks you are always near the bottom as we were.  It doesn't make you good, it keeps you from being terrible. Like allowing over 50% of third down conversions and 60% of 4th down conversions.  That doesn't win games or shut down other offenses. We struggled getting off the field and that was due to the scheme.  Passive between the 20s and then gets more aggressive which already puts the opponent  in field goal range. While you blame the offense let's remember that you aren't going to win a ton of games if you give up almost 26 points a game. And we lost many of those 8 one score games because we couldn't stop teams from scoring as well couldn't score enough on our own. Snow was surely not a miracle worker and looked like a college coach trying to use his 3-5-3 college scheme which was awful. Hopefully with even more talent and now experience he can craft a legitimate defense  that dictates to others instead of  a weak bend til you break scheme we saw last year.

Spot on. He gets a pass on year one because he was new and the roster blew, but I haven't seen any indication that he's an above average NFL coordinator yet let alone head coach material.

[Harbingers]

44 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Something tells me that Snow is going to adapt and with the talent we have, we will have a good defense that will be in the upper half of the league.  Top 10 maybe but far better than 2020. 

Not this year. We still have a lot of young raw talent. Even more so than last year really. If we are top 10 in any category(including sacks which really is the most likely) I'll be shocked.

[Jon Snow]

Old man Snow will leave when he's good and damn well ready.  The old cuss knows his stuff so let the man do some work and build our defense of the future. He is just getting started.

[Mr. Scot]

I kind of like the idea of having someone in the mold of a Jim Johnson or a Dick LeBeau.

[jayboogieman]

4 hours ago, DJ feed me moore said:

Josh Norman was the best CB in the NFL for 2015?

By what measurement? Passes defensed? Others did better. Interceptions? Others had more. Yards allowed? Others allowed less. Tackles? Others had more. Norman played well the first part of that year but trailed off once he knew he would get paid.

[jayboogieman]

2 hours ago, BrianS said:

I disagree.  Bradberry shut down Julio Jones, Mike Evans, Michael Thomas, etc more than often enough to earn the tag "shut down". 

Gamble certainly had the best PANTHERS career (as a whole career) of any CB who has ever played here.  Some folks might want to argue for Eric Davis, and he's another good shout but I think Gamble's body of work with the Panthers was better.

All that said, Josh Norman's 2015 dwarfed any season Gamble ever played.  In that year, anyone who tries to argue that JNo was anything less than a shutdown corner has an agenda.  He was amazing.

Not every corner can be Deion Sanders, Champ Bailey or Richard Sherman with many years of outstanding play.  That doesn't mean that in a given time and space they cannot be a shut down corner.  JNo certainly was for a brief period.  I believe James Bradberry did it for a year or two as well.

 

We'll just have to disagree. Bradberry was better than Norman, but neither were ever shutdown as Panthers.

Norman had a great start to 2015, but trailed off as the season went. David Amerson, Marcus Peters, and several others had better overall seasons.

[DaveThePanther2008]

1 hour ago, Jon Snow said:

Old man Snow will leave when he's good and damn well ready.  The old cuss knows his stuff so let the man do some work and build our defense of the future. He is just getting started.

I do believe he has a plan and we have many of the parts to make our defense great.

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

I kind of like the idea of having someone in the mold of a Jim Johnson or a Dick LeBeau.

So Do I. 

[Madwolf]

I'm a little torn on him. I thought we looked better than we should at times last year, and other times I thought we looked downright pathetic.

I want to see some consistency this year.

[Basbear]

One thing most are over looking is convid made it much easier for O than D. Snow also had to over come that while the NFL went a scoring rampage. Brady struggled while many other OCs broke all their records. Snow surprised the hell out of me and I would worry about him leaving, even tho Texans just hired a 66 year old guy.