How much of the Jets performance was really on Darnold?

[frankw]

You just aren't going to get through to some of these people. There were folks trying to shut down any dissent about Teddy Bridgewater until the bitter end last year.  Optimism is good but shifting blame in all directions and then grasping for any favorable comparison before a real snap has been taken is unnecessary. Let him show us something. The opener is the perfect opportunity.

[SBBlue]

3 minutes ago, Madwolf said:

And if we go by Passer Rating? INTs? YPA? TDPA? TOPA? Completion %? 7-9 Dolphins vs 4-12 Jets?

The evidence is stacked against you. You're losing this argument.

A QB can have a passer rating of 158.3, which is perfect, and still have a 39.0 QBR.

This case is a perfect example of this. All the numbers tell you Tannehill had the better year by every possible measurement except for ESPN's convoluted QBR metric.

It seems you need a refresher on QBR

Total QBR takes into account the level of difficulty the opponent team's defense is based on the opponent's’ defensive FPI, among other factors.

Conceptualizing the detail Total QBR puts in can be explained through the 2015 NFC Wild Card game between the Green Bay Packers and the Washington Redskins.^[6] Aaron Rodgers of the Packers completed 21 of 36 passes for 210 yards, 2 touchdowns, and 0 interceptions, which computes to a 93.5 passer rating. Kirk Cousins of the Redskins completed 29 of 46 passes for 329 yards with 1 touchdown and 0 interceptions, computing a 91.7 passer rating. Observing these statistics, one is likely to conclude that Cousins and Rodgers had similar success and that it was likely a close game. However, the Packers won, 35-18, and much of the reason for that can be attributed to Rodgers' overall play, not just his passing numbers.

Traditional passer statistics omit the rest of the impact that these quarterbacks made. Cousins also took 6 sacks, had 3 fumbles (1 lost), and 2 pre-snap penalties on Washington's offense. Rodgers, on the other hand, took only one sack, did not fumble, and drew a number of defensive penalties to keep drives alive. Rodgers manufactured five scoring drives, posting an 82.4 Total QBR. Cousins’ errors resulted in a Total QBR of just 58.9 and were a big factor in Washington losing the game.

 

Your beef isn't with me...its with ESPN.

I know its hard to accept, but Tannehnill had the WORST QBR in the league in 2018, lower than rookie Darnolds.  His overall play sucked and it was reflected in the QBR.  He was traded afterwards.

 

 

 

[Madwolf]

2 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

It seems you need a refresher on QBR

Total QBR takes into account the level of difficulty the opponent team's defense is based on the opponent's’ defensive FPI, among other factors.

Conceptualizing the detail Total QBR puts in can be explained through the 2015 NFC Wild Card game between the Green Bay Packers and the Washington Redskins.^[6] Aaron Rodgers of the Packers completed 21 of 36 passes for 210 yards, 2 touchdowns, and 0 interceptions, which computes to a 93.5 passer rating. Kirk Cousins of the Redskins completed 29 of 46 passes for 329 yards with 1 touchdown and 0 interceptions, computing a 91.7 passer rating. Observing these statistics, one is likely to conclude that Cousins and Rodgers had similar success and that it was likely a close game. However, the Packers won, 35-18, and much of the reason for that can be attributed to Rodgers' overall play, not just his passing numbers.

Traditional passer statistics omit the rest of the impact that these quarterbacks made. Cousins also took 6 sacks, had 3 fumbles (1 lost), and 2 pre-snap penalties on Washington's offense. Rodgers, on the other hand, took only one sack, did not fumble, and drew a number of defensive penalties to keep drives alive. Rodgers manufactured five scoring drives, posting an 82.4 Total QBR. Cousins’ errors resulted in a Total QBR of just 58.9 and were a big factor in Washington losing the game.

 

Your beef isn't with me...its with ESPN.

I know its hard to accept, but Tannehnill had the WORST QBR in the league in 2018, lower than rookie Darnolds.  His overall play sucked and it was reflected in the QBR.  He was traded afterwards.

 

 

 

No my beef isn't with ESPN at all. I don't think QBR is a great stat because of what we're talking about right here. 

Ryan Tannehill outplayed Sam Darnold by a noticeable margin, and he rated Tannehill as the worst QB.

When you look at the numbers, Tannehill's low QBR is even an outlier by his previous stats and QBR. 

Frankly, it doesn't make sense for his QBR to be that low.

I mean, how about this from In 2015 from QBR

Ryan Fitzpatrick > Tom Brady

Tyrod Taylor > Ben Roethlisberger

Jay Cutler > Philip Rivers

Brian Hoyer > Russel Wilson

Ryan Mallet > Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Matthew Stafford, Joe Flacco, Nick Foles, Sam Bradford

The 4th best QBR game of 2015 went to Teddy Bridgewater who went 14/18 for 153 yards and 1 TD

The best QBR of all time at this point was Charlie Batch in 2010 with a stat line of: 12/17 186 yards, 3 TDs, and 2INTs

 

 

 

[SBBlue]

3 minutes ago, Madwolf said:

Ryan Tannehill outplayed Sam Darnold by a noticeable margin.

No he didn't

The rest of your post attacked QBR.  I get your beef, it makes Tannehill look bad.  I didn't give Tannehill the WORST QBR in the league in 2018.  That was ESPN.

Edited June 8, 2021 by SBBlue

[Madwolf]

1 minute ago, SBBlue said:

No he didn't

The rest of your post attacked QBR.  I get your beef, it makes Tannehill look bad.  I didn't give Tannehill the WORST QBR in the league in 2018.  That was ESPN.

So you're telling me that Ryan Mallet was a better QB than

Cam Newton

Andrew Luck

Matthew Stafford

Joe Flacco

Nick Foles

Sam Bradford in 2015?

You're telling me that Charlie Batch had the best QB game of all time in 2010?

[SBBlue]

1 minute ago, Madwolf said:

So you're telling me that Ryan Mallet was a better QB than

Cam Newton

Andrew Luck

Matthew Stafford

Joe Flacco

Nick Foles

Sam Bradford in 2015?

You're telling me that Charlie Batch had the best QB game of all time in 2010?

Go on, keep attacking QBR.  Thats fine. 

I know Tannehills <2000 yard season in 2018 looks pretty good to you, it just doesn't to me, ESPN or the Miami Dolphins.

[Madwolf]

4 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

Go on, keep attacking QBR.  Thats fine. 

I know Tannehills <2000 yard season in 2018 looks pretty good to you, it just doesn't to me, ESPN or the Miami Dolphins.

If we compare apples to apples. Had both QBs thrown the same number of passes Tannehill would have had 2,980 yards. 

But feel free to dig into TDs, TOs, completion %, wins, losses, etc.

You seem to keep avoiding these topics over and over and over again.

[Madwolf]

Since Charlie Batch's amazing performance, things have changed a bit.

Lamar Jackson had 4 of the Top10 QBR performances of all time to Tom Brady's 1. And as a Louisville Cardinal fan, I fully support the belief that Lamar Jackson is already 4 times better than Tom Brady.

[SBBlue]

 

10 minutes ago, Madwolf said:

If we compare apples to apples. Had both QBs thrown the same number of passes Tannehill would have had 2,980 yards. 

We don't know why Tannehill had fewer attempts.  A lot of 3 and outs? Maybe they didn't extend drives, or because Gase ran a lot.  

QBR takes situation into account and tries to rate quarterback contribution.  Its imperfect.

Look, your not going to convince me that Tannehill was any better than Darnold in 2018 and I'm not going to convince you otherwise.

Can we agree on the hope that Darnold sees a similar rebound?

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2021 by SBBlue

[CRA]

Cam Newton during his NFL MVP season.....wasn't even top 10 in QBR. 

[Madwolf]

5 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

 

We don't know why Tannehill have fewer attempts.  A lot of 3 and outs? Maybe they didn't extend drives, or because Gase ran a lot.  

QBR takes situation into account and tries to rate quarterback contribution.  Its imperfect.

Look, your not going to convince me that Tannehill was any better than Darnold in 2018 and I'm not going to convince you otherwise.

Can we agree on the hope that Darnold sees a similar rebound?

 

 

 

Actually it's not really a mystery. Tannehill was hurt that season. He played in less games, and had to come out of a few.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Madwolf

[1usctrojan]

25 pages so far.....bet this will be regurgitated numerous times once the season starts.....50 pages mid season?

[SBBlue]

3 minutes ago, Madwolf said:

Actually it's not really a mystery. Tannehill was hurt that season. He played in less games, and had to come out of a few.

So we can't even agree on the hope that Darnold sees a similar rebound?

[SBBlue]

5 minutes ago, 1usctrojan said:

25 pages so far.....bet this will be regurgitated numerous times once the season starts.....50 pages mid season?

Trying to end the cage match.