Sam Darnold's "Style of Ball"

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Here's my opinion.

I don't know the future.

Not sure why that's hard to understand.

And no, your posts aren't "triggering" me, but they're definitely making my shake my head and wonder why the heck you're so emotional about this.

What's the point of posting if every post is implying we don't know the future (no poo) and avoiding going out on a limb with an actual opinion at all costs? 

I mean, is there any real argument over history being stacked against Darnold working out here? Sure, we're betting otherwise. We know that. But there's a reason why there weren't any other suitors and in my opinion we got ripped off. Everyone knew the Jets were taking Wilson and needed to move on from Darnold. There was no rush to cut a deal. There was no competition for him. We were bidding against ourselves... just like I think we probably were with Teddy last year.

[SmittysLawnGuy]

 

 

[SBBlue]

11 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

What's the point of posting if every post is implying we don't know the future (no poo) and avoiding going out on a limb with an actual opinion at all costs? 

I mean, is there any real argument over history being stacked against Darnold working out here? Sure, we're betting otherwise. We know that. But there's a reason why there weren't any other suitors and in my opinion we got ripped off. Everyone knew the Jets were taking Wilson and needed to move on from Darnold. There was no rush to cut a deal. There was no competition for him. We were bidding against ourselves... just like I think we probably were with Teddy last year.

I'm not sure if I'd use the term rush.  We know they started working the deal for Darnold  in February.  They probably wanted the QB situation wrapped up before draft so we had the most freedom with the first round pick.   

We lost a 2nd and 4th next year and 6th next year.  We recouped the 4th in the draft and the 6th from the Teddy trade.  If you consider that next years 2nd is a 3rd this year, we've already recouped that as well and we got Tommy Tremble for it.

I did NOT want Darnold.  I thought he was total bust.  I felt the deal sounded too generous. 

Now after the draft and the more I learn about the situation Darnold was in, I'm more and more convinced, its going to look like a steal.  

[SBBlue]

1 hour ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Some of us do seem to be somewhat more optimistic than others when it comes to Sam's prospects as a Panther.  

Darnold can make all the throws and isn't afraid to take chances.  I don't get the impression from watching his tape that he is afraid to take a hit or lacks the ability to evade defenders.  For me it all comes down to his ability improve his decision making process.  If he can do that I think we've found our long term QB.

The more I learn about the situation the Jets were in, the more hopeful I become.  

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

I'm not sure if I'd use the term rush.  We know they started working the deal for Darnold  in February.  They probably wanted the QB situation wrapped up before draft so we had the most freedom with the first round pick.   

We lost a 2nd and 4th next year and 6th next year.  We recouped the 4th in the draft and the 6th from the Teddy trade.  If you consider that next years 2nd is a 3rd this year, we've already recouped that as well and we got Tommy Tremble for it.

I did NOT want Darnold.  I thought he was total bust.  I felt the deal sounded too generous. 

Now after the draft and the more I learn about the situation Darnold was in, I'm more and more convinced, its going to look like a steal.  

I hope you are right. If it busts, it is going to sour fans and media on the staff. I don't want that honeymoon to be over this early.

[pantherclaw]

44 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm just asking that if you're going to say something as if it's based on reality to be ready to back it up. Don't say crap like there are "a lot" of guys coming from this type of situation that have become successful starting QBs. There aren't. We're betting on him becoming one of the few. We'll see if that's a smart bet, but good grief at the homers who are acting like successful turnarounds happen all the time and that we've got this slam dunk at QB when that's faaaaaar from the truth. 

 

I never once said there are a lot of examples of it working. 

You won't find them in a league that often can't be patient enough for these young guys to properly develop. 

That doesn't mean it can't happen.  Just gotta do your homework on the kid, and hope he can unlearn the bad habits he had on his old team when they had a musical oline in front of him, and a lack of consistent talent around him in general. 

You know as well as I do everything I have said here is truth. 

Yes, the Panthers are bucking the odds. No question. They like their chances, and if you end up being right, they grab another QB to plug into the talented team they are assembling. 

At least the team isn't sitting on its ass and waiting for the perfect guy to fall to us, because that poo NEVER happens!!

[Mr. Scot]

19 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

What's the point of posting if every post is implying we don't know the future (no poo) and avoiding going out on a limb with an actual opinion at all costs? 

I mean, is there any real argument over history being stacked against Darnold working out here? Sure, we're betting otherwise. We know that. But there's a reason why there weren't any other suitors and in my opinion we got ripped off. Everyone knew the Jets were taking Wilson and needed to move on from Darnold. There was no rush to cut a deal. There was no competition for him. We were bidding against ourselves... just like I think we probably were with Teddy last year.

Christian McCaffrey got injured last year. Will it happen again this year? Come on, "go out on a limb" with an actual prediction

There are cases where I'm perfectly comfortable giving an opinion if I think the evidence points in a certain direction.

There are also cases where the genuine answer is "You know what? I don't know."

This happens to be one of those.

Yes, Darnold has been bad in the past, but all of the mitigating circumstances that have been discussed as nauseum are equally valid. So who can say?

I know sports talk these days is all about everyone having their take and "this is my opinion, come at me" and hall that bullsh-t, but I'm a little old for that and frankly, I find it boring.

You think he'll suck. Our braintrust thinks he's worth a shot. We'll see who's right down the road.

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

I never once said there are a lot of examples of it working. 

You won't find them in a league that often can't be patient enough for these young guys to properly develop. 

That doesn't mean it can't happen.  Just gotta do your homework on the kid, and hope he can unlearn the bad habits he had on his old team when they had a musical oline in front of him, and a lack of consistent talent around him in general. 

You know as well as I do everything I have said here is truth. 

Yes, the Panthers are bucking the odds. No question. They like their chances, and if you end up being right, they grab another QB to plug into the talented team they are assembling. 

At least the team isn't sitting on its ass and waiting for the perfect guy to fall to us, because that poo NEVER happens!!

You literally said a lot of successful QBs would be considered busts if Darnold is currently considered a bust. When pushed to name names there's been nothing. We're betting on long odds. That's all I'm saying.

[Basbear]

5 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

If I cared(and I for sure don't) I am sure re-reading offseason 2020 posts about Teddy are pretty entertaining now.

I love these dopes that can't take any adult discussion that is even slightly critical. 

Need to bump some of those threads. Best I can remember is I did not agree with Teddy, but understand if the staff wanted him. I know I said a few times, much prefer just keeping Cam for the year. I also know for a fact I MUCH preferred Jameis Winston for 1 million over Yeddy for 20 per. 

Plus I did forecast teddy having his best season and he he did, been on roll with panther predictions.

[kungfoodude]

8 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

I never once said there are a lot of examples of it working. 

You won't find them in a league that often can't be patient enough for these young guys to properly develop. 

That doesn't mean it can't happen.  Just gotta do your homework on the kid, and hope he can unlearn the bad habits he had on his old team when they had a musical oline in front of him, and a lack of consistent talent around him in general. 

You know as well as I do everything I have said here is truth. 

Yes, the Panthers are bucking the odds. No question. They like their chances, and if you end up being right, they grab another QB to plug into the talented team they are assembling. 

At least the team isn't sitting on its ass and waiting for the perfect guy to fall to us, because that poo NEVER happens!!

It's not always the franchises fault for lack of development. Some of these guys just don't develop. Look at Arizona with Rosen and Murray. Do you think they were at fault for lack of development with Rosen? No, he just wasn't a guy. Doesn't mean he didn't have NFL caliber talent. Murray "developed" because he was an NFL ready player.

Remember that we have already attempted a reclaimation project with David Carr. Sometimes it is tough to "unlearn" habits and sometimes it isn't just bad habits but core attributes. That is the thing we will see about Darnold. He has a reputation of making very poor decisions under pressure and bailing on plays to freelance. If he can limit both of those here, he is very likely to be successful. 

And we definitely did not sit on our ass waiting for a QB. One of our first moves of the offseason was to try and trade for Matt Stafford. The staff is very well aware of the importance of getting a QB.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

I hope you are right. If it busts, it is going to sour fans and media on the staff. I don't want that honeymoon to be over this early.

I don't get the sense that Tepper is going to pull the plug on the Rhule experiment based upon Darnold's success or failure.

I think Sam either plateaus at a Teddy level (where he is now) or he will finally put it all together, justifying Rhule's gamble on him.  Darnold's likelihood of being a "bust" in the traditional sense doesn't seem likely.

All things being equal, if Rhule parts ways with Sam in a season or two, he will get at least one more chance to find his QB. Matt has demonstrated through the first season that he is extremely intelligent and capable of making chicken salad from chickenshit.  That is a skillset worth giving at least three strikes to IMHO. 

[PNW_PantherMan]

It's definitely a long shot that Sam would turn his career around and become our franchise QB or an all-star.  But, the league's story is told through long shots, in my opinion.  Tom Brady being selected in the 6th round.  The Giants beating the undefeated patriots.  Pat Mahomes being completely exceptional and beyond what anyone thought he would be.  Every season the Super Bowl winner is the exception.

Honestly, I don't expect Darnold to be that great.  But this is the NFL.  Why do we need a case study to compare Sam Darnold to?  Every situation is unique.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Basbear said:

Need to bump some of those threads. Best I can remember is I did not agree with Teddy, but understand if the staff wanted him. I know I said a few times, much prefer just keeping Cam for the year. I also know for a fact I MUCH preferred Jameis Winston for 1 million over Yeddy for 20 per. 

Plus I did forecast teddy having his best season and he he did, been on roll with panther predictions.

No need to bump them. Those guys know who they are.

100% agree on Cam or Winston over Teddy. I think either option would have been more successful.

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

It's not always the franchises fault for lack of development. Some of these guys just don't develop. Look at Arizona with Rosen and Murray. Do you think they were at fault for lack of development with Rosen? No, he just wasn't a guy. Doesn't mean he didn't have NFL caliber talent. Murray "developed" because he was an NFL ready player.

Remember that we have already attempted a reclaimation project with David Carr. Sometimes it is tough to "unlearn" habits and sometimes it isn't just bad habits but core attributes. That is the thing we will see about Darnold. He has a reputation of making very poor decisions under pressure and bailing on plays to freelance. If he can limit both of those here, he is very likely to be successful. 

And we definitely did not sit on our ass waiting for a QB. One of our first moves of the offseason was to try and trade for Matt Stafford. The staff is very well aware of the importance of getting a QB.

There have been two QBs I've been absolutely convinced would bust simply based on their attitude and demeanor in the press leading up to the draft - they were Josh Rosen and Paxton Lynch. Both just reeked of cockiness. Not the good type of swagger cocky, the "I'm too good to possibly fail" type of cocky.