Ron "learning from his mistakes" in Carolina

[panthers55]

18 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Calling 3 of 9 Ron our "best coach ever" says more about the failure of the Panthers as an organization than is does Rivera.

It also shows how hard it is to develop a consistent winner. Seems we are finally finding the processes to put in place to hopefully be one of those teams.

[CRA]

45 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Calling 3 of 9 Ron our "best coach ever" says more about the failure of the Panthers as an organization than is does Rivera.

it is what it is

I think if we had a great GM like some orgs? Ron would still be the coach.   His teams were very flawed overall in terms of talent.  How weak certain spots got.    More so than Fox's IMO. 

[Mr. Scot]

44 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Calling 3 of 9 Ron our "best coach ever" says more about the failure of the Panthers as an organization than is does Rivera.

By objective measures, Rivera is our most successful coach.

Now with that said, Fox came waaaay closer to winning his Super Bowl opportunity whereas Rivera is arguably one of the big reasons they lost.

[CRA]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

By objective measures, Rivera is our most successful coach.

Now with that said, Fox came waaaay closer to winning his Super Bowl opportunity whereas Rivera is arguably one of the big reasons they lost.

that was a weird SuperBowl.   Some really questionable stuff by refs in that one.   Different set of refs and it could of gone the other way.  You rarely are going to win when the refs start calling it for the other team.    When both teams are good. 

The Remmers stuff is pretty indefensible though.   But doing what we did got us to 17-1....so I could see why the obivous adjustment might be harder for them than us.  Especially, when we were getting the looks and some big plays were setting up for us down.   We just couldn't get it off. 

[NAS]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

By objective measures, Rivera is our most successful coach.

Now with that said, Fox came waaaay closer to winning his Super Bowl opportunity whereas Rivera is arguably one of the big reasons they lost.

He also came close to going to another SB in 2005, losing against Seattle. 

[rayzor]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

Although it was 9 years long, this was his first job as coach. And I doubt he was given free rein here like in Washington.

i could understand him being on a leash for the first 2-3 years....but after that, it was all him. Unless he just couldn't be trusted to run the team after that then you have to wonder, why keep him at all?

Sorry, I just don't buy the whole 'first time coach' argument/excuse for him. You can either do the job or you can't.

There's no reason we should stick with any coach longer than 5 years if we haven't achieved success (meaning a ring) by then.

Most HCs who win a Superbowl are able to win it with in their first gig as a HC and within 5 (typically within 3) years of their first year as HC with a team. Only exception in the last 25+years to it taking longer than 5 years as HC with their team being Bill Cowher.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

27 minutes ago, NAS said:

He also came close to going to another SB in 2005, losing against Seattle. 

2008 was looking pretty good as well, then the Ragin' Cajun melted down against AZ.

https://www.nfl.com/news/delhomme-dooms-panthers-with-six-turnovers-09000d5d80e07124

Edited May 24, 2021 by NanuqoftheNorth

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, rayzor said:

i could understand him being on a leash for the first 2-3 years....but after that, it was all him. Unless he just couldn't be trusted to run the team after that then you have to wonder, why keep him at all?

Sorry, I just don't buy the whole 'first time coach' argument/excuse for him. You can either do the job or you can't.

There's no reason we should stick with any coach longer than 5 years if we haven't achieved success (meaning a ring) by then.

Most HCs who win a Superbowl are able to win it with in their first gig as a HC and within 5 (typically within 3) years of their first year as HC with a team. Only exception in the last 25+years to it taking longer than 5 years as HC with their team being Bill Cowher.

Hell, Richardson wanted to fire him before Hurney fell on the sword to save him.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Hell, Richardson wanted to fire him before Hurney fell on the sword to save him.

In an alternate universe Cam has already won a Super Bowl.

[panthers55]

9 minutes ago, rayzor said:

i could understand him being on a leash for the first 2-3 years....but after that, it was all him. Unless he just couldn't be trusted to run the team after that then you have to wonder, why keep him at all?

Sorry, I just don't buy the whole 'first time coach' argument/excuse for him. You can either do the job or you can't.

There's no reason we should stick with any coach longer than 5 years if we haven't achieved success (meaning a ring) by then.

Most HCs who win a Superbowl are able to win it with in their first gig as a HC and within 5 (typically within 3) years of their first year as HC with a team. Only exception in the last 25+years to it taking longer than 5 years as HC with their team being Bill Cowher.

And Belichick did it with his second team. Tom  Coughlin was Jaquars coach for 7 years and then went to the Giants. He won it his fourth year there. So there are certainly examples of coaches winning Super Bowls with their second team after failing to win it with their first. That is off the top of my head. There might be others. 

[Sgt Schultz]

23 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

And Belichick did it with his second team. Tom  Coughlin was Jaquars coach for 7 years and then went to the Giants. He won it his fourth year there. So there are certainly examples of coaches winning Super Bowls with their second team after failing to win it with their first. That is off the top of my head. There might be others. 

Pete Carroll did it with team #3, and 4 years into that (his 8th in the NFL).  It really just depends on the situations they walk into. 

But, at some point the message does get stale.  Rivera said that when he took the Panthers job, he thought the limit of that timeline was about 10 years.  Almost on cue, he hit his limit.  Among his faults, one of them was NOT a lack of understanding that guys like Landry, Shula, Knoll, and Belichick are very much exceptions, and even their style/message seemed to get stale at points in their tenures.  Although they also adapted to one degree or another along the way.

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Sgt Schultz

[rayzor]

30 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

And Belichick did it with his second team. Tom  Coughlin was Jaquars coach for 7 years and then went to the Giants. He won it his fourth year there. So there are certainly examples of coaches winning Super Bowls with their second team after failing to win it with their first. That is off the top of my head. There might be others. 

There are a good bit more than i thought who did it with their 2nd or third team as HC, but still the standard is within 5 years with the team they won the SB with. 

I don't care how much i like or the team likes rhule, if we don't have it done within 5 years, we need to move on and we should have moved on from both fox and rivera after 5.

[Mr. Scot]

58 minutes ago, rayzor said:

There are a good bit more than i thought who did it with their 2nd or third team as HC, but still the standard is within 5 years with the team they won the SB with. 

I don't care how much i like or the team likes rhule, if we don't have it done within 5 years, we need to move on and we should have moved on from both fox and rivera after 5.

Marv Levy was another one but most people don't remember him being with the Chiefs.

Bill Cowher took 15 years to win a Super Bowl. He'd been to one prior to that, but he didn't win.

Granted, most teams aren't as patient as the Steelers.

[CRA]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

And Belichick did it with his second team. Tom  Coughlin was Jaquars coach for 7 years and then went to the Giants. He won it his fourth year there. So there are certainly examples of coaches winning Super Bowls with their second team after failing to win it with their first. That is off the top of my head. There might be others. 

part of Ron's coaching tree.  Andy Reid. 

Tony Dungy.

*edited out wrong coach lol.