Understanding the personnel Moves: The Panther's Wide Zone Blocking Scheme

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

We sure as hell didn't have that under Rivera and Fox.

Fox was famously too damn stubborn to adjust the coverage scheme against Arizona even though we had a corner capable of shadowing Fitzgerald and they didn't have jack sh-t outside of him at the time.

We saw the exact same thing from Rivera against the Giants in our SB season. We were absolutely blowing them out when they realized - wait, we know where Josh Norman is going to be... let's just move OBJ around and keep him away from Norman. He proceeded to damn near single handedly beat us in an incredible comeback effort.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We saw the exact same thing from Rivera against the Giants in our SB season. We were absolutely blowing them out when they realized - wait, we know where Josh Norman is going to be... let's just move OBJ around and keep him away from Norman. He proceeded to damn near single handedly beat us in an incredible comeback effort.

Rivera was stuck in that "left corner / right corner" thing at the time too.

(used to drive me bonkers)

[Rags]

7 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We saw the exact same thing from Rivera against the Giants in our SB season. We were absolutely blowing them out when they realized - wait, we know where Josh Norman is going to be... let's just move OBJ around and keep him away from Norman. He proceeded to damn near single handedly beat us in an incredible comeback effort.

To be fair I don't think we had a DB on our roster that coulda saved us that savage asswhopping outside of Josh. And love Josh to death but he has never been a shadow the best WR for 60 minutes husband that showed QUICKLY in Washington

 

 

But I mean that can also open up a discussion about how Ron. Just did not value the secondary even an iota when he was here.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Rags

[LinvilleGorge]

And since this is a thread about the OL, we all remember what else happened during our SB season. A very poor man's Von Miller ate Mike Remmers alive in our lone regular season loss clearly showing us his inability to handle a speed rusher. Did we learn anything from that experience?

[BlitzMonster]

Interesting post MHS !

One thing I'm a bit confused about is that Elflien, Christensen, Tremble and (to a lesser extent) Cam Erving are "move" blockers, guys with agility that can run and make blocks all over the field.

Moore and Brown seem to be the polar opposites of that - big, strong, round boulders that can withstand any bull rush but have below average athletic ability.  They seem to be best suited to play in a phone booth.  You say Moore "can move" but his RAS scores were pretty bad ( and Brown's were even worse ).

So how do you get an OL to function as a unit when you have two very different body types on it ?   I don't get it.   Shouldn't the Panthers have either all agile, zone blocking OL or all massive man blockers, not both mixed together on the same OL like some type of Frankenstein's monster ?  

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, BlitzMonster said:

Interesting post MHS !

One thing I'm a bit confused about is that Elflien, Christensen, Tremble and (to a lesser extent) Cam Erving are "move" blockers, guys with agility that can run and make blocks all over the field.

Moore and Brown seem to be the polar opposites of that - big, strong, round boulders that can withstand any bull rush but have below average athletic ability.  They seem to be best suited to play in a phone booth.  You say Moore "can move" but his RAS scores were pretty bad ( and Brown's were even worse ).

So how do you get an OL to function as a unit when you have two very different body types on it ?   I don't get it.   Shouldn't the Panthers have either all agile, zone blocking OL or all massive man blockers, not both mixed together on the same OL like some type of Frankenstein's monster ?  

I'm not familiar enough with Moore to comment, but I agree about Brown. He seems like the worst possible stylistic fit for this type of blocking scheme.

[Snake]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It's awesome to have guys who are truly elite players in that you could put them on the field in any system and they're going to be great. But the salary cap dictates you're not going to have many of those on your roster. The next best thing is to target guys who are very good at specific elements that fit your scheme.

This was the first off season and draft I really saw us draft for our scheme. We had a actual plan and stuck to it. Unlike hurney and DG who just drafted guys based on talent and made the coach fit them to the scheme.

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, ForJimmy said:

MHS you are the offseason MVP! Keep doing your thing!

I am on a leave of absence that started right before the draft.  I am doing this on meds.  When I go back to work and stop popping pills, I will revert back to the old, one-dimensional stuff.  I think people like Linville and Mr Scot do it so regularly, they go underappreciated.  And your contributions have been solid.  The only person who is bad for the huddle is Fua (see my pic for explanation).

[MHS831]

56 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We saw the exact same thing from Rivera against the Giants in our SB season. We were absolutely blowing them out when they realized - wait, we know where Josh Norman is going to be... let's just move OBJ around and keep him away from Norman. He proceeded to damn near single handedly beat us in an incredible comeback effort.

That is absolutely right.  Forgot about that.

[Mr. Scot]

52 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

And since this is a thread about the OL, we all remember what else happened during our SB season. A very poor man's Von Miller ate Mike Remmers alive in our lone regular season loss clearly showing us his inability to handle a speed rusher. Did we learn anything from that experience?

Voth not long ago said that somebody was assigned to help Remmers with Miller, but they didn't do it. A few people on here speculated it might have been Mike Tolbert.

That's kind of still on coaching though. How do you let a guy get away with not doing what you told him to do? And if he won't, couldn't you tell someone else?

[MHS831]

48 minutes ago, BlitzMonster said:

Interesting post MHS !

One thing I'm a bit confused about is that Elflien, Christensen, Tremble and (to a lesser extent) Cam Erving are "move" blockers, guys with agility that can run and make blocks all over the field.

Moore and Brown seem to be the polar opposites of that - big, strong, round boulders that can withstand any bull rush but have below average athletic ability.  They seem to be best suited to play in a phone booth.  You say Moore "can move" but his RAS scores were pretty bad ( and Brown's were even worse ).

So how do you get an OL to function as a unit when you have two very different body types on it ?   I don't get it.   Shouldn't the Panthers have either all agile, zone blocking OL or all massive man blockers, not both mixed together on the same OL like some type of Frankenstein's monster ?  

I struggled with the same concerns about our newest guards.  However, I am less concerned about Moore than Brown.   We shall see, but I LOVE Moore and hope he can get there.  And you have to run the ball in A gap too, so maybe their strengths will offset.  I wish I knew more about this Blitz.  I am just trying to piece it together and look at it all as they might be--

FWIW I think I can change your mind about Moore:

 

[Mr. Scot]

One thing worth remembering regarding Gibbs and Shanahan's zone blocking schemes in Denver...

Those teams made a lot of use of cut and chop blocking, and a bunch of defenders wound up injured because of it.

Tampa was doing something similar when colossal POS Keenan McCardell ended the career of then Panther Kavika Pittman.

I don't see us employing that aspect of the scheme.

[pantherj]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Had a feeling that was the old Alex Gibbs style.

(man, that guy is a piece of sh-t)

Super effective scheme for running the ball though. Shanahan regularly had average backs be thousand yard rushers using it in Denver.

The old cut blocking technique worked wonders for making poop RBs look like superstars because it scared the defensive linemen into thinking they were about to lose their ACLs.

[pantherj]

For those who are curious.