Why Tommy Stevens will be the #3 QB

[MHS831]

1 minute ago, CarolinaLivin said:

This as well, but Hill offers more than what you would normally expect from a QB3 position. 

 

He sure does.  This could be a poor man's version of Hill or it could become a trend.  I mean, Stevens was no slouch in college-he was decent, but a 6-5, 235 lb man with a 4.49 40 who can complete 60% of his passes (college) and run the football from the wildcat, etc. is not a bad change of pace / #3 option.  Better than Grier going out in the third quarter to help distribute Gatorade.

[CarolinaLivin]

Just now, MHS831 said:

He sure does.  This could be a poor man's version of Hill or it could become a trend.  I mean, Stevens was no slouch in college-he was decent, but a 6-5, 235 lb man with a 4.49 40 who can complete 60% of his passes (college) and run the football from the wildcat, etc. is not a bad change of pace / #3 option.  Better than Grier going out in the third quarter to help distribute Gatorade.

I say Stevens makes the team, Darnold has a friendly "show us you aren't a bust" 2yrs (maybe 1yr in disguise like the 3yr teddy contract we were supposed to see through), and PJ Walker is on the hot seat. I say PJ is replaced as soon as next season if QB1 isn't still a priority.

But I doubt QB2 will be high on the priority list. Depends on how we spend our money next season. I believe we will have one of the highest cap's next off-season.

[rayzor]

39 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I don't think Hill has that much talent. 

Agreed. He'll be a flash in the pan.

[BlitzMonster]

3 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Drafting guys based on athletic ability and measurables rather than actual accomplishments. 

I think you pretty wrong on this point.  Rhule's top picks are being drafting on athletic ability and accomplishments:  

• Derrick Brown - SEC Defensive Player of the Year
• Yetur Gross-Matos - first team All Big 10
• Jeremy Chinn - consensus FCS All American
• Jaycee Horn - second team All SEC
• Terrace Marshall Jr - 104 yards receiving per game in 2020
• Brady Christensen - first team All American
• Chuba Hubbard - Big 12 Offensive Player of the Year in 2019 when he rushed for 2100 yards
• Daviyon Nixon - Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year 

 

[CarolinaLivin]

15 minutes ago, BlitzMonster said:

I think you pretty wrong on this point.  Rhule's top picks are being drafting on athletic ability and accomplishments:  

• Derrick Brown - SEC Defensive Player of the Year
• Yetur Gross-Matos - first team All Big 10
• Jeremy Chinn - consensus FCS All American
• Jaycee Horn - second team All SEC
• Terrace Marshall Jr - 104 yards receiving per game in 2020
• Brady Christensen - first team All American
• Chuba Hubbard - Big 12 Offensive Player of the Year in 2019 when he rushed for 2100 yards
• Daviyon Nixon - Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year 

 

The Top draft prospects are going to have these kinds of accomplishments, I mean it is the reason they're placed high on draft boards. 

[BlitzMonster]

8 minutes ago, CarolinaLivin said:

The Top draft prospects are going to have these kinds of accomplishments, I mean it is the reason they're placed high on draft boards. 

kungfoodude claimed Rhule was drafting guys based on their athletic ability, not their achievements.  And it was pretty easy to show that wasn't the case.  All of Rhule's top draft picks have been very accomplished on the field.  

[CarolinaLivin]

8 minutes ago, BlitzMonster said:

kungfoodude claimed Rhule was drafting guys based on their athletic ability, not their achievements.  And it was pretty easy to show that wasn't the case.  All of Rhule's top draft picks have been very accomplished on the field.  

I understand what you're saying, but drafting a guy high that has no accomplishments would be a reach. Accomplished guys are always going to be atop the draft boards. I just don't get why its being debated. I guess the argument could be that Rhule (& the guys) took the BPA on his/their board and maybe he didn't have guys with no accomplishments high, but not many teams would unless you have some insider info. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by CarolinaLivin

[54th man]

22 hours ago, MHS831 said:

 

I suppose if I had to narrow down the Panthers to the most versatile players, my list would look something like:

• Chinn--SS, FS, LB
• Hartsfield SS, Nickel, CB
• Erving  T, G, C
• Tremble TE, Hback, Fback
• Marshall slot, X, Z
• Stevens QB, Hback, wildcat, TE, flanker, etc. ???

Versatile players save roster spots and enhance depth.

A roster is 53/55 players, and not all dress on game day.  a third QB holding in clip board and cracking one liners during time out huddles on the sideline is a waste of a roster spot.

So when you consider how we could use Stevens (Taysom Hill) to enhance the offense and still have a #3 QB, the word versatility adds a roster spot.

I think this impacts the decisions we will made at TE more than QB.  I think Arnold and Tremble are locks, and I also think Ian Thomas and maybe Colin Thompson are liabilities that will be cut.  Sullivan can go to the PS and learn while this "experiment" unfolds.

Think Arnold as the starter, but then think about the TE situation after that. How are we a bigger threat with a 3rd round TE and 7th round backup QB in a way we are not a threat with Ian and Colin?  We have discussed how Tremble will help--lead blocker hback, fullback, etc.  A thumper in the backfield.  Stevens, in that same position, turns the Hback, fullback, wildcat into a passing/running threat.  So essentially, he is as good as most 3rd string QBs because he is dual threat, but he is making the TE position 3-dimensional.  Arnold the receiving threat, Tremble the blocking threat, and Stevens, the passing/running threat.

Do we need Grier now?  Would Stevens actually save us a roster spot, allowing us to carry 2 TEs?

 

Since some of you are unfamiliar with his skill set, I have included some moving pictures from Miss St.  He tells the story of how Payton's ego sent him to New Orleans at the cost of a sixth rounder, only to be given some development and sent to free agency for the Panthers.

https://youtu.be/DtX-valcSJg

 

 

 

Excellent post. Makes slot of sense.

[kungfoodude]

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

We keep saying, "Brady likes him" but I am not sure that is a ringing endorsement after TB.  I wonder how much tinkering Brady did with Hill in NO to make this happen, and if he wants to continue that project.  I get what people are saying, but I have always wondered why a #3 QB takes a roster spot.  My ideas have been to keep your #3 on the PS, use Bonnefon, and now this--probably the best of the three options.

And I agree--the #2 QB is the spot we need to build, so maybe we shall see.  We could keep a QB (probably will) on the PS as well.

 

We really have no idea whether these coaches have any clue how to be successful at the level. The early indications are they seem to know what they are doing but we also know that there were definitely signs of learning curves having to be navigated. I don't get too concerned about that. In a couple of seasons if you don't see the growth, then you really start to worry a lot.

We will never know the full story on Teddy. Was that the rumored, "He was a Hurney guy" thing or was he a Brady guy or was he a Rhule guy or some combination? We'll never know. What we do know is that the boogeyman(Hurney) is gone now. The early indications of guys we were interested in (Stafford and Watson) clearly shows some ability to at least recognize what elite NFL talent is. After the past season, we are going to see if they have the ability to determine what a potentially elite QB is(Fields/Darnold). 

In the very likely event that Darnold fails, I am not going to jump off a cliff and start calling for the firing of everyone. We do know he wasn't even close to the first option we had in mind. So, the big test to me will be in 2022 when we are going through our third consecutive QB search. Do we keep making poor choices or do we get desperate? The next QB search is where I am going to learn the most about the staff/FO, IMO.

I think every successive offseason and draft class will allow patterns to start emerging and we the fans to start to deduct whether we have the guys that can build a long term successful franchise or not.

The best possible outcome is that we crushed free agency and crushed the draft. The likelihood of that isn't great but if we can at least clearly see that our decisions were largely correct, that will give the fans peace of mind and perhaps even great hope for the future.

[bythenbrs]

3 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Better than Grier going out in the third quarter to help distribute Gatorade.

I guess that depends on his completion percentage...

[kungfoodude]

2 hours ago, BlitzMonster said:

I think you pretty wrong on this point.  Rhule's top picks are being drafting on athletic ability and accomplishments:  

• Derrick Brown - SEC Defensive Player of the Year
• Yetur Gross-Matos - first team All Big 10
• Jeremy Chinn - consensus FCS All American
• Jaycee Horn - second team All SEC
• Terrace Marshall Jr - 104 yards receiving per game in 2020
• Brady Christensen - first team All American
• Chuba Hubbard - Big 12 Offensive Player of the Year in 2019 when he rushed for 2100 yards
• Daviyon Nixon - Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year 

 

Well a three of the guys you are listing are from last year's class. I would say our 2021 draft class is really the first true "Rhule" class because the shadow of Hurney over everything prior to this offseason. We just will never know what portion he gets blame nor credit for.

And I don't so much mean accolades in college as actual accomplishments. For instance, Tremble who was essentially a rotational player but his athletic marks are off the charts. They definitely seemed to lean high athletic ability and they have been vocal about that.

My counter being, you have to be careful how far down that road you go. Everyone here remembers the persistent joke about how Oakland was going to over rank all the combine warriors. Winning the underwear Olympics means you have great raw ability but that doesn't mean you are going to be a great NFL player. Remember, most guys that reach this point are already amazing athletes. 

[Peon Awesome]

22 hours ago, BrianS said:

If he can't displace Grier or Walker, he has no business playing QB.  Straight up.

I hate to say it, but this kinda reeks of a Hurney move.  Armanti Edwards anyone?

I don't think taking a flier on a no risk, minimum salary, end of roster player really warrants much criticism here. 

And more and more teams keep only 2 qbs on the roster. Having someone like him would be primarily for his TE and/or special teams contributions, with a lesser role as the emergency qb if we get horribly unlucky to have both our starter and backup qb injured in the same game and need someone to get us through to the end of that game. Then we'd sign another qb before the next game. So in that sense he doesn't even have to be better than either Grier or Walker. If he's more likely to meaningfully contribute to the team, he is worth a roster spot over 1 of them.

[MHS831]

2 hours ago, bythenbrs said:

I guess that depends on his completion percentage...

In fairness, he is compared to adam sandler a lot--most of gatorade gets to its destination with minimal spillage.

[Basbear]

9 hours ago, MHS831 said:

I have been on work release for a month (not Covid) and I am medicated---recipe for some constructive gunslinging.

Me on work release- 

 

Someone needs to make content, I suck at making huddle topics. For this one, I feel Stevens is the perfect PS player. He can play run QB, TE, LB, ST, RB, DE, etc. I feel grier is better pure QB, weapon wise/tricks/______ Tommy got me there. I can see the case for being active for ST, but hed have to prove that worth. He almost has to force Rhule by being a monster in practices.