Questions about Newton's status in NE?

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

I really never get this.  Ron allowed Cam to be Cam.  Which was the right call IMO.   

You either allowed Cam to be special or you prevented it to maybe extend his career.  What do you think Cam wanted? 

Letting Newton be Newton didn't prevent us from building a better offensive line to protect him.

The one year we did have a decent offensive line, things went very well.

[CRA]

1 minute ago, YourLastThought said:

Ron should have held him back to a point plain and simple. Powering it up with middle with your franchise QB was stupid.

Cam's ability to do that....is literally what made him special and a part of what made him a franchise QB. 

Remove that from his game or significantly reduce it....then Cam isn't actually special.  And we don't win when we did with him. 

[CRA]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Letting Newton be Newton didn't prevent us from building a better offensive line to protect him.

The one year we did have a decent offensive line, things went very well.

Different issue.  

any decent coach is going to let Cam Newton be Cam Newton.   How well your team is built doesn't change what Cam is or isn't. 

Cam's best OL was his 2011 OL.  That unit also featured two highly paid first round draft picks at RB... it did go pretty well for Cam.  He rewrote the NFL record book on the ground from the QB spot.   Because Cam was the clear cut best option in too many scenarios in 2011.   He was special.  And he was special and the best option almost no matter what your roster looked like. 

Cam Newton is to this day and IMO all time....the greatest short yardage threat in NFL history.  A unicorn we likely never see again.  

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

Different issue.  

any decent coach is going to let Cam Newton be Cam Newton.   How well your team is built doesn't change what Cam is or isn't. 

Cam's best OL was his 2011 OL.  That unit also featured two highly paid first round draft picks at RB And it did go pretty well for Cam.  He rewrote the NFL record book on the ground from the QB spot.   Because Cam was the clear cut best option in too many scenarios in 2011.   He was special.  And he was special and the best option almost no matter what your roster looked like. 

Cam Newton is to this day and IMO all time....the greatest short yardage threat in NFL history.  

Jerome Bettis would disagree.

Here's the problem though. It's one thing to ask a quarterback to be the focal point of your offense, another to ask him to basically be the offense.

Rivera followed Buddy Ryan's example and thus devoted his best resources to the defense while just expecting Newton to carry his side of the ball.

In doing so, he likely shortened Newton's career.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Mr. Scot

[CRA]

14 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Jerome Bettis would disagree.

Here's the problem though. It's one thing to ask a quarterback to be the focal point of your offense, another to ask him to basically be the offense.

Rivera followed Buddy Ryan's example and thus devoted his best resources to the defense while just expecting Newton to carry his side of the ball.

In doing so, he likely shortened Newton's career.

Jerome Bettis would be wrong too.  

I mean, IMO,  it was a given Cam Newton would have a shortened career given what he was.  It was discussed at length when we drafted him.   What do you do with him? Let him be Cam or nerf him some to maybe extend his career.   I was only in favor of drafting Cam if we allowed him to be special and be Cam.  We did that....and it was a lot of fun.  Probably the most fun window to ever be a Panther fan. 

 

[OneBadCat]

Rivera screwed Cam by going for the quickest route to success. Chud used Cam the right way with a lot of looks. Play action and singleback formations with Cam throwing behind the center. Not just RPO.

Ron abused Cam's ability and made us predictable with the RPO. Our offense essentially became, RPO, screen pass, then a high pressure 3rd and long pass play every drive.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

Jerome Bettis would be wrong too.  

I mean, IMO,  it was a given Cam Newton would have a shortened career given what he was.  It was discussed at length when we drafted him.   What do you do with him? Let him be Cam or nerf him some to maybe extend him career.   I was only in favor of drafting Cam if we allowed him to be special and be Cam.  We did that....and it was a lot of fun.  Probably the most fun window to ever be a Panther fan. 

Point being that he still could have "let Cam be Cam" while doing a better job of team building and coaching around him.

[CRA]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Point being that he still could have "let Cam be Cam" while doing a better job of team building and coaching around him.

no disagreeing on the poor job done building around Cam while we had him.  

But Ron wasn't the HC/GM.  He was just the HC.   That doesn't all fall on him like it gets put so often. 

[ForJimmy]

32 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Letting Newton be Newton didn't prevent us from building a better offensive line to protect him.

The one year we did have a decent offensive line, things went very well.

Yeah the big hits that caused injuries were the blindsided ones from the pocket. When Cam was running he would brace for impact and could see the hit coming. The pocket hits are what shortened his career. The Von Miller, and TJ Watt hits were all from having a bad offensive line and a staff that refused to scheme around or address it.

[Car123]

44 minutes ago, CRA said:

I really never get this.  Ron allowed Cam to be Cam.  Which was the right call IMO.   

You either allowed Cam to be special or you prevented it to maybe extend his career.  What do you think Cam wanted? 

With good weapons around him, Carolina could have extended his prime. Carolina would not have needed Cam to be superman to be successful.

[BrianS]

It was total workload that did him in.  Period.  You can still let "Cam be Cam" three to five times a game, plus his scrambles.  You would still need to plan for it as a defense or get gouged.  You'd also extend his career.

However, some of that does also fall on Cam since we cannot know how many of those QB runs were RPO's where Cam chose to run when he could have thrown.  Or plays where Cam audibled us into a run.  I suspect that 20 or 30 carries per year were something like that.

There is certainly plenty of blame to go around for his abbreviated career.

[PootieNunu]

1 minute ago, BrianS said:

It was total workload that did him in.  Period.  You can still let "Cam be Cam" three to five times a game, plus his scrambles.  You would still need to plan for it as a defense or get gouged.  You'd also extend his career.

However, some of that does also fall on Cam since we cannot know how many of those QB runs were RPO's where Cam chose to run when he could have thrown.  Or plays where Cam audibled us into a run.  I suspect that 20 or 30 carries per year were something like that.

There is certainly plenty of blame to go around for his abbreviated career.

Except Cam did not get hurt running the football. He got hurt making a tackle after a INT. He also got hurt in the pocket because MoRon and Hurney refused to pick up any OL that were worth a damn. 

[BrianS]

2 minutes ago, PootieNunu said:

Except Cam did not get hurt running the football. He got hurt making a tackle after a INT. He also got hurt in the pocket because MoRon and Hurney refused to pick up any OL that were worth a damn. 

Why are RB's done after age 29?  Because of the beating they take.  How much more fragile is a QB who needs his arms and legs?

I've heard this argument before, and you're right, he did get injured in ways beside running the ball.  What we cannot know is how much of the punishment obtained in running contributed to those injuries.  I don't know.  You don't know.  I do find it very fair to say that there is a portion of his abbreviated years that are 100% due to him being used in ways outside the typical QB workload.

[CRA]

41 minutes ago, Car123 said:

With good weapons around him, Carolina could have extended his prime. Carolina would not have needed Cam to be superman to be successful.

I think we could of had more success as a team with a better built team around Cam.  

Would that of extended his career?  I don't know.  Cam is still Cam.    Ron didn't make him that way.  He didn't ask him to be that.   He just let him be what he was. 

and the biggest health issue IMO to his career.....is from his shoulder.  An injury that he received not as a byproduct of letting Cam be Cam with the ball in his hands.