Draft Analysis: "A massive value-destroying error"?

[CRA]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

You seriously think they had a conversation where they said "Well, Fields might be the better quarterback but we can't take him because we might look bad and it's better to risk losing than looking bad."

Yeah, sure.

Lemme guess. Is David Tepper sitting next to you in the room again?

You think the Carolina FO has looked good since Rhule has been here in regards to how they have dealt with the QB scenarios?

I think drafting Fields adds to the blemish right now and they opted not too....and I don’t think it takes a lot of talking.    

Again, they can just go win more with Sam than they did last year and kick the QB can.  Our fan base will be happy with 9 wins.  And that is obtainable with Sam not changing one bit.  

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, CRA said:

You think the Carolina FO has looked good since Rhule has been here in regards to how they have dealt with the QB scenarios?

I think the Carolina braintrust isn't made up of the same people as last year.

But on that front, did they stick with Bridgewater to try to keep from looking bad or did they dump him?

As far as Rhule, he's had only a single season on a rebuilding team (during which he was paired with a crap GM) so I think his grade is still Incomplete as of now.

[CRA]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

I think the Carolina braintrust isn't made up of the same people as last year.

But on that front, did they stick with Bridgewater to try to keep from looking bad or did they dump him?

As far as Rhule, he's had only a single season on a rebuilding team (during which he was paired with a crap GM) so I think his grade is still Incomplete as of now.

Ok, but how do you think Carolina has been viewed in terms of handling the QB scenarios while Rhule has been here? The general consensus.   I mean that still exists... 
 

 

[PNW_PantherMan]

If they thought Justin Fields was the next Pat Mahomes, they take him no question.  I have a hard time believing they'd be worried about looking stupid picking him in that case.  The most likely explanation is the simplest.  Fields or Jones were not viewed as significantly better than Darnold as young QB prospects to justify using the pick on them.

Darnold could be terrible and Fields could be in the HoF.  I'm just saying thats most likely what went down in the decision making process.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

Ok, but how do you think Carolina has been viewed in terms of handling the QB scenarios while Rhule has been here? The general consensus.   I mean that still exists... 

I don't really give a sh-t about the general consensus.

I care about how things work out this year. And contrary to popular belief, none of us knows how that's going to go just yet.

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't really give a sh-t about the general consensus.

I care about how things work out this year. And contrary to popular belief, none of us knows how that's going to go just yet.

Well, I’ll take that as the Panthers under Rhule have looked poorly in terms of how they have managed the QB situations while he has been here.  

fair or unfair, it being the right or wrong perception....Rhule and company know it.   

 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, CRA said:

Well, I’ll take that as the Panthers under Rhule have looked poorly in terms of how they have managed the QB situations while he has been here.  

fair or unfair, it being the right or wrong perception....Rhule and company know it.   

It's one season.

Look, I get that you need to spin why they didn't do what you thought they should / predicted they would, but it doesn't really mean anything.

Me? I don't know if this is going to work or not, but I'm open minded about it.

[jayboogieman]

41 minutes ago, CRA said:

Darnold is an actual NFL QB who has started in this league for 3 years.  And the comparison was to the talk we saw with Teddy when we brought him in and the talk we are now seeing as we bring Sam in.  

I mean we know a good bit about Darnold.  Just like we did with Teddy.  

my issue is equating Darnold to a 2021 top 10 draft pick.  He isn’t that.  

no one knows what will happen.  But we need a QB....and we aren’t picking the best lotto tickets IMO.  

Darnold is the same age as some of the rookie QBs and had only been a starter 3 years before being drafted including high school. (source) Despite having 3 years of NFL experience, he hasn't played a complete NFL season (source), so he could be equated to a rookie. His advantage over the rookies is that he should be use to the speed of the NFL game.

I agree that nobody knows what will happen. I don't agree that the team thinks they need a QB though.

[jayboogieman]

10 minutes ago, CRA said:

I think drafting Fields adds to the blemish right now and they opted not too....and I don’t think it takes a lot of talking.    

How does taking Fields add to the blemish if they thought he was a franchise QB or at least better than Darnold? Correcting mistakes is a good thing. The simple fact might be they just think Darnold is better than Fields.

[CRA]

28 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

How does taking Fields add to the blemish if they thought he was a franchise QB or at least better than Darnold? Correcting mistakes is a good thing. The simple fact might be they just think Darnold is better than Fields.

Because in one year you have the Cam fiasco, you have the Teddy mistake, you force yourself into having to trade and get Sam, Teddy is such a cluster your have to pay him to be the Denver QB....and after all that a QB falls into your lap? 

Fields seems like another log that draws more attention to a mess the org has made in a short window.   Plus, the fans/media would have demanded Fields IMO.  You kind of make Sam an instant mistake by an org that really doesn’t need to take one in the moment. 

Given the lotto hit success of QBs?  I’d probably roll with Sam and pass on Fields too with all that if in Rhule’s shoes. ... I think Sam was the better short term answer for Rhule and company.  2021 season in general.   As a long time Panther fan...I’m more interested in finding the next Cam though.  

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

Because in one year you have the Cam fiasco, you have the Teddy mistake, you force yourself into having to trade and get Sam, Teddy is such a cluster your have to pay him to be the Denver QB....and after all that a QB falls into your lap? 

Fields seems like another log that draws more attention to a mess the org has made in a short window.   Plus, the fans/media would have demanded Fields IMO.  You kind of make Sam an instant mistake by an org that really doesn’t need to take one in the moment. 

Given the lotto hit success of QBs?  I’d probably roll with Sam and pass on Fields too with all that if in Rhule’s shoes ... I think Sam was the better short term answer for Rhule and company.  2021 season in general.   As a long time Panther fan...I’m more interested in finding the next Cam.  

Fans may be looking for "the next Cam" but from what we've seen, the team isn't.

What they're looking for is the best quarterback to run their current system. That likely means a skill set closer to Drew Brees than Cam Newton.

I'd add that I'm not so sure "the next Cam" would be that easy to find even if they were looking. Newton was a lot more unique of a specimen than people seem to remember.

Of this year's draftees, I'm not sure any of them would have qualified as "the next Cam". 

[CRA]

14 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Fans may be looking for "the next Cam" but from what we've seen, the team isn't.

What they're looking for is the best quarterback to run their current system. That likely means a skill set closer to Drew Brees than Cam Newton.

I'd add that I'm not so sure "the next Cam" would be that easy to find even if they were looking. Newton was a lot more unique of a specimen than people seem to remember.

Of this year's draftees, I'm not sure any of them would have qualified as "the next Cam". 

The next Cam was simply referring to finding another franchise and elite QB.   It wasn’t about finding someone that plays the game like Cam.  But I see why that could be unclear.

Until we do, I just don’t think much matters in the NFL.     

 

[jayboogieman]

32 minutes ago, CRA said:

Because in one year you have the Cam fiasco, you have the Teddy mistake, you force yourself into having to trade and get Sam, Teddy is such a cluster your have to pay him to be the Denver QB....and after all that a QB falls into your lap? 

Fields seems like another log that draws more attention to a mess the org has made in a short window.   Plus, the fans/media would have demanded Fields IMO.  You kind of make Sam an instant mistake by an org that really doesn’t need to take one in the moment. 

Given the lotto hit success of QBs?  I’d probably roll with Sam and pass on Fields too with all that if in Rhule’s shoes. ... I think Sam was the better short term answer for Rhule and company.  2021 season in general.   As a long time Panther fan...I’m more interested in finding the next Cam though.  

I agree that they didn't handle Cam or Teddy well. That said, they were not forced to trade for Sam. There were more than five QBs in the draft, plus free agent QBs. They traded for Darnold because they wanted to, not because they had to.

You think Fields would have been another mistake. Others may feel that he would have been a solution to the problem had they drafted him.

If this is another rebuild year, Rhule doesn't have to worry about wins as much, so Darnold being a short term answer doesn't matter. Rhule just has to show that the team is buying into what he is saying and showing some improvement. 2022 and beyond will be a different story though.

I'm a long time Panther fan as well. You wanting the next Cam is your problem. I want the guy that can help the team become a consistent winner and finally have back to back winning seasons.

Edit: Just saw your other post about not finding a Cam clone, but a franchise QB. You should have just said franchise QB instead of the next Cam.

Edited May 14, 2021 by jayboogieman

[CRA]

10 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

I agree that they didn't handle Cam or Teddy well. That said, they were not forced to trade for Sam. There were more than five QBs in the draft, plus free agent QBs. They traded for Darnold because they wanted to, not because they had to.

You think Fields would have been another mistake. Others may feel that he would have been a solution to the problem had they drafted him.

If this is another rebuild year, Rhule doesn't have to worry about wins as much, so Darnold being a short term answer doesn't matter. Rhule just has to show that the team is buying into what he is saying and showing some improvement. 2022 and beyond will be a different story though.

I'm a long time Panther fan as well. You wanting the next Cam is your problem. I want the guy that can help the team become a consistent winner and finally have back to back winning seasons.

Well, they created a scenario where Teddy couldn’t remain here and there were decent odds a QB might not fall to 8....and they only have PJ and Will.   What type scenario is that?

You don’t want an elite and franchise QB?   I mean that can my problem.   Seems like that should be common ground for all of us.   I don’t know a lot of teams that have pulled off being consistent winners without one.  We had one and still struggled with the consistent part.