Draft Analysis: "A massive value-destroying error"?

[jayboogieman]

Just now, CRA said:

Well, they created a scenario where Teddy couldn’t remain here and there were decent odds a QB might not fall to 8....and they only have PJ and Will.   What type scenario is that?

You don’t want an elite and franchise QB?   I mean that can my problem.   Seems like that should be common ground for all of us.   I don’t know a lot of teams that have pulled off being a consistent winners without one.  We had one and still struggled with the consistent part. 

With Teddy or without Teddy, they still could have drafted a QB or signed a free agent QB. There were options.

I had edited my post after I saw your reply to MrScot. You should have just said franchise QB instead of the next Cam if that is what you meant.

[CRA]

4 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

With Teddy or without Teddy, they still could have drafted a QB or signed a free agent QB. There were options.

I had edited my post after I saw your reply to MrScot. You should have just said franchise QB instead of the next Cam if that is what you meant.

Well, there was no with Teddy option after a certain point...and there were odds none of the top tier prospects would be there.   

That’s why I wanted Sam in that moment.  He was the right move then.   They got that right IMO considering where we found ourselves.  Best move
 

[Mr. Scot]

20 minutes ago, CRA said:

The next Cam was simply referring to finding another franchise and elite QB.   It wasn’t about finding someone that plays the game like Cam.  But I see why that could be unclear.

Until we do, I just don’t think much matters in the NFL.     

 

And we might have one.

We don't know, but the team's personnel people believe it's possible.

[jayboogieman]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

Well, there was no with Teddy option after a certain point...and there were odds none of the top tier prospect would be there.   

That’s  why I wanted Sam in that moment.  He was the right move then.  

The Panthers still had other options besides Teddy and the top prospects. They could have easily taken Mond, Trask, or any of the other QBs in the draft.

So Sam is a franchise QB?

[CRA]

14 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

And we might have one.

We don't know, but the team's personnel people believe it's possible.

I just play the odds.  How many have turned into one...after disappointing for 3 years as a starter with the team that drafted him to be one. 

seems like the smartest money is on considering him a bandaid to get by until we can find someone else.   If he surprises, he surprises.   That was Teddy.  That is Darnold.   That’s been a million guys at many positions.  Sometimes they surprise.  Mostly they don’t.  

and we have an entertaining year and win some games.  

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

I just play the odds.  How many have turned into one...after disappointing for 3 years as a starter with the team that drafted him to be one. 

seems like the smartest money is on considering him a bandaid to get by until we can find someone else.   If he surprises, he surprises.   That was Teddy.  That is Darnold.  

Playing the odds would have meant not spending a high pick on a Florida State pass rusher. Or, for that matter, on an Ohio State quarterback.

Can't always play it safe.

[ickmule]

Time will tell for sure.  

[pantherj]

Rhule and Fitterer want to build on both sides of the ball and have the utmost confidence in Darnold. The thing is that Rhule and Fit have enough time to miss on a QB and still keep their jobs. If Darnold flops they won't be fired. They still have a safety net due to their long contracts and general timeline expectations.

If Darnold flops, then I seriously doubt we take a long shot on another 78 passer rated QB. We won't do this again because Rhule and Fit will be running out of time to build a winner. It's Darnold wins or we start drafting 1st round QBs imo.

[CRA]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Playing the odds would have meant not spending a high pick on a Florida State pass rusher. Or, for that matter, on an Ohio State quarterback.

Can't always play it safe.

Well, the draft is the lottery.  Might as well go big where you need it the most.   We did that with Cam.   That has always been my preference.

Cam was more controversial than some remember 
 

 

 

[Boundary Guru]

Just reading the op. Laughing...

I would counter Sam Donald as our 1st around draft pick and we got Horn in the 1st, while only having 1 1st round pick. Let's see what Rhule and Brady can do in a couple of years before we judge. Gase seems to have not been the best coach. Hell, Lawrence is going to need a couple of years before being judged. Off with the clickbait.

[PanthersATL]

One thing that I think we can all agree on is that Darnold has certainly bought into representing/participating with team shenanigans in just the few weeks he's been with us, vs the weeks (dare I say months?) where Teddy took his time to change his Twitter photo from a Saints graphic to anything else. 

Likely has nothing to do with the thread topic, other than "value" can be calculated in many different ways.

#TrustTheProcess

[Frizzy350]

9 hours ago, CRA said:

they used too many words to say something simple.

Drafting a player that turns into the best RB or DB in the entire NFL....doesn't actually mean anything in today's NFL.  That isn't how you go about winning in today's NFL.   Those are complimentary pieces to your QB driven team. 

The key to real and lasting NFL success is finding a QB.   Nothing really matters until you find one.  Can you win without one? Maybe.  But it generally is a one year fluke and you are right back to not mattering. 

 

Agreed.  In today's NFL though - it seems there are more 'franchise defining' QBs than ever before.

How many QBs are there that you think are capable to build around and win the big game?

Murray, Stafford, Wilson, Burrow(?), Mayfield, L Jackson, Big Ben (?), Herbert, Mahomes, Brady, Matt Ryan, J Allen, Goff, Rodgers, Cousins (?), Wentz (?), Watson, Tannehill, Dak Prescott, Hurts...

It's a passing league, sure, but what is often separating the success of that rather large list above isn't the talent of the QB (of course that is not an absolute).

Having a competent QB is super important.  No you are not going to win in today's NFL with Trent Dilfer... but I also don't see this like the 90's where you had like 6 HoF QBs in the league that were the only guys worth investing in.

[SizzleBuzz]

10 hours ago, thennek said:

Agree or disagree, Rhule believes Sam is just as good as Fields or Jones which is why they picked Horn. We will see if this was the right decision soon. 

Agreed. 

That said, if "they" are wrong what are the ramifications?

[top dawg]

5 hours ago, CRA said:

I don’t think his take is dumb....it’s just not your take.

I think the management overall of the QB situation in a small window likely factored in too

-they looked bad in how the Cam era ended here 

-they brought in and overpaid Teddy and that blew up in their face

-they looked bad throwing Teddy under the bus as they failed in pursuing Stafford/Watson (we are fortunate in hindsight there)

- they worked themselves into a position Teddy had to go and a scenario existed where a QB might not even be available in the draft at #8.  So they had to acquire someone before the draft to prevent a going backwards scenario (which would have been not having a QB fall to 8 and ending up with just Grier and Walker) 

- Teddy fiasco went so bad they are having to pay him to be the starting QB in Denver 

Then a QB fell.  Adding Fields then IMO, to some, also plays into the narrative and spotlights even more so the fact that they have handled that spot extremely poorly in a short window of time here.  

We have seen some bad front offices here.  All over the league too.  They might be one too.  I think you are too quick to paint everything they do as 4 D chess and right.  QB looks pretty messy to me.  To others.   It isn’t outlandish for them to be self aware of how that looks in a small window and it to impact them.   

So you really believe that Rhule and Fitterer passed on Fields because it would've made them look bad after acquiring Darnold?

That's a terrible take, & doesn't jibe with jettisoning TB & paying most of his salary while he plays for Denver. Fitterer and Rhule aren't scared in the least and won't let public opinion sway them in the slightest as it pertains to building the best team possible. They proved it when they acquired Darnold, & proved it again by trading down multiple times.

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by top dawg