Ye Evolution of the OL has Begunst

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, Basbear said:

 

Kungfu I believe you thought the 2020 OL was going to be ranked in the 30s, I predicted they would be mid-pack(alone as a remember).....and for the most part they did. Im not ready to make any sort claim with this current group, maybe after preseason games. Still the right side should be fine, as long as Moton is healthy. LG should be filled form big pool of able players. LT is where my HUGE questions are, still they *should be able to field 4 out 5 with at least average NFL players. That one is the big one tho. For me its TBD, need to see live game and real reports. 

St I can not disagree with adding Smith over a Long Safety....... as Ive said using draft picks on any STers is against my religion. If Im not ready to call 2021, no chance Im ready to call 2022. Moton seems to be the key, honestly to both seasons. Just the reports are he wants top LT money, thats a hard pass for me. Tag him again for a bargain and either play it out or trade him. 20+ million for ANY non-QB is a hard check to sign for me. Be like Dbrown wanting top DE money, tag and wait it out another year.....see if the agent comes down to earth...

Far as the 3 OLmen form the draft, I really reallly like the OGs Brown and Moore. This year maybe a red-shirt for both or one maybe starting mid-season. Could be the 2022 starters, just how well they adapt to Rhule/NFL/defenders. Both are strong and I do believe each will be out to prove a point. Christensen is unknown to me, dont hate him or have a solid opinion. I do have far more questions about him- he was 24 years, 4 years older than Sewell and most of his competition. 19 years old vs 24 there is a huge gap in everything, you should be dominating. My other big issue is his level of competition, I do not think any of the players he blocked(maybe one) will be drafted to in the NFL. He was never tested at all, well that is about to change and how he reacts to getting beat like a drum will determine if hes able to be a Wharton or Little type of player. Personally dont see him able to fill the LT spot, better fit as a OG(sight chance at RT), but he could prove that wrong.... 

They were definitely better than I expected but I attribute that to a couple of things, the addition of Okung and also the Brady offense which revolved around getting rid of the ball quickly(Teddy actually deserves credit for this to, whether we want to give him credit or not).

Still, even "better" was in the 16 to 26 range, depending on what metric you are grading them by.

I am very skeptical of this version of our OL because I wasn't a big fan of our new free agents(basically backups, IMO...which we admittedly needed too) and I thought our attempts to upgrade in the draft were rather poor overall. But, if we can simply get 1-2 solid starters out of all these moves, it would make a huge difference in my thinking. 

I actually like Moore better than Brown. Brown is fuging ENORMOUS but he is probably gonna be a bit limited in what he can do overall because he isn't going to be able to move like anyone else on the line. Definitely don't expect to see him handle speed rushers well or be out on the edge pulling.

[BlitzMonster]

42 minutes ago, Basbear said:

I too was screaming for Smith, especially late rounds. I do understand if your 3 doctors all come up with the same conclusion- Pass. I did read up some about him, seems he did not practice with teammates much at all during the week. He was on blood liners most of his career and that does make injuries more risky. One concussion and your career could be over, G little had about 3 in a short time frame. He is going to get injured, blood flow is the key to healing. He is going to need to constant monitoring and one simple injury hes in danger.

wow, that's actually a lot worse than I realized

[Basbear]

31 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

They were definitely better than I expected but I attribute that to a couple of things, the addition of Okung and also the Brady offense which revolved around getting rid of the ball quickly(Teddy actually deserves credit for this to, whether we want to give him credit or not).

Still, even "better" was in the 16 to 26 range, depending on what metric you are grading them by.

I am very skeptical of this version of our OL because I wasn't a big fan of our new free agents(basically backups, IMO...which we admittedly needed too) and I thought our attempts to upgrade in the draft were rather poor overall. But, if we can simply get 1-2 solid starters out of all these moves, it would make a huge difference in my thinking. 

I actually like Moore better than Brown. Brown is fuging ENORMOUS but he is probably gonna be a bit limited in what he can do overall because he isn't going to be able to move like anyone else on the line. Definitely don't expect to see him handle speed rushers well or be out on the edge pulling.

 

Bro I used 15 versions of "should", Im out the farthest out on the branch without fully putting on the homer glasses. I too did not care for Elf or Erving, both have put out AWFUL tape for the last three years(same for ginger cringer...). So I am in wait see mode, cause my current report would not be a nice one. My 4 out of 5 statement did not include either Elf or Erving(not for LT) btw, I have both on the bench for 2021..... You have every right to be skeptical, but I can not give the hope stamp like last year. My hope is Rhule and Pat can pull off a miracle or two.... Live game snaps in preseason games, before I make a prediction. Plus fyi dont put too much stock into Brown looking bad in 1 on 1 drills, a OG always has someone to their right and left.....those drills always make C/OGs look bad. OL play as 1, not 1 vs 1 too.  

I can give you some hope for Brown @stbugs included. If you havnt seen Brown pulling or showing max effort check this out- 

 https://twitter.com/colecubelic/status/1060295663194390528

 

Could be Im high on hopium, but I believe both Moore and Brown will be focused on proving the doubters wrong. My main hopes for each is in 2022 tho, but that happen sooner. 

 

 

 

[Basbear]

58 minutes ago, BlitzMonster said:

wow, that's actually a lot worse than I realized

All that said, Id still took him over a Long Safety......

[Panthers Rhule]

On 5/8/2021 at 4:55 PM, MHS831 said:

Just trying to keep some fresh perspective on the Huddle folks.  Not trying to be an expert, but I am not interested in the fact that Juston Burris is considering changing his shoe size or that the Boston Celtics offered us a future pick to move up for a guard.  This is real, and you can almost see the plan unfolding.

 

This something I have mentioned in passing once or twice myself and it's one of the reason I strongly support the trade downs we did for more draft picks and hope we continue drafting in this way to some degree or other depending on roster needs. One mistake we, and most other teams too, have always made is resigning good players for more than they were worth. It's an easy trap to fall into. If a player is really good you want to keep them. If you have nothing waiting behind them then you "have" to resign them. This is how teams get into cap trouble. Especially when those players are getting older and especially at certain positions where injuries are common as the player reaches a certain age. Everyone knows that depth is important when a starter gets injured during the season. But it's also important when it's time to resign players. No team can afford to overpay everyone on their rosters so teams must make a list of players value to the team and not just their ability. We should list 2-3 players as "must keep" and pay them accordingly. If/when we have to resign a player who isn't a "must have" and they ask too much, we must be able to let that player go and replace them with the next man up. It will be even better when we reach a point where we are able to anticipate that situation a year before it arises to trade those players for assets whether it's other players or draft  picks. Even if the next man up isn't as good but is good enough it will allow the team to keep the overall team level up. Having 2 or 3 good players is better than having 1 great player and 1 or 2 average players A team should only pay a player top money if that player is essential to the success of your team and if they are only a piece then the team would be better off finding another piece.  

[Panthers Rhule]

20 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

The level of dumb homerism in this thread with zero knowledge behind it is amazing.

Fair enough. But that's a very general statement without much in the way of supporting arguments. So, please educate us all by explaining exactly who was on our OL last season that isn't on the roster this season and was so good that the possibility that any of these new additions couldn't possibly match their level of play is "dumb homerism" and why. I'm more than willing to consider your point of view if you can support it with an explanation. 

[Snake]

Morons contract will be super complex and I really think why he was tagged was because we didn't want Hurney screwing it up.

[MHS831]

7 minutes ago, Snake said:

Morons contract will be super complex and I really think why he was tagged was because we didn't want Hurney screwing it up.

I haven't thought about this angle--I think you're exactly right.

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, Basbear said:

 

Bro I used 15 versions of "should", Im out the farthest out on the branch without fully putting on the homer glasses. I too did not care for Elf or Erving, both have put out AWFUL tape for the last three years(same for ginger cringer...). So I am in wait see mode, cause my current report would not be a nice one. My 4 out of 5 statement did not include either Elf or Erving(not for LT) btw, I have both on the bench for 2021..... You have every right to be skeptical, but I can not give the hope stamp like last year. My hope is Rhule and Pat can pull off a miracle or two.... Live game snaps in preseason games, before I make a prediction. Plus fyi dont put too much stock into Brown looking bad in 1 on 1 drills, a OG always has someone to their right and left.....those drills always make C/OGs look bad. OL play as 1, not 1 vs 1 too.  

I can give you some hope for Brown @stbugs included. If you havnt seen Brown pulling or showing max effort check this out- 

https://twitter.com/colecubelic/status/1060295663194390528

 

Could be Im high on hopium, but I believe both Moore and Brown will be focused on proving the doubters wrong. My main hopes for each is in 2022 tho, but that happen sooner. 

 

Yeah, I honestly was hoping for the first time in forever that we were going to take the OL seriously and make some needed moves. Needless to say, I was disappointed in what we ended up doing and the way we ended up doing it. 

I just hope these FO guys prove to be geniuses and make our skepticism look completely foolish. I'd rather look foolish and enjoy success than be right and watch the team look like dogshit.

 

[kungfoodude]

45 minutes ago, Panthers Rhule said:

Fair enough. But that's a very general statement without much in the way of supporting arguments. So, please educate us all by explaining exactly who was on our OL last season that isn't on the roster this season and was so good that the possibility that any of these new additions couldn't possibly match their level of play is "dumb homerism" and why. I'm more than willing to consider your point of view if you can support it with an explanation. 

The only non-scrub loss was Okung and he wasn't healthy enough to move the bar this season even if we did bring him back(which we rightly didn't). The point being that the hope was that we upgraded over the guys we played(Miller, Scott, Reed, Schofield, Daley, Little, etc). 

I don't expect that Erving/Elflein are going to be much of an upgrade, nor does really their performances up to this point in the NFL indicate that(similar to last year's non-Okung signings). Everything about them indicates they are journeyman depth guys and not NFL starters(hence why they have been jettisoned by multiple teams). 

The draft isn't that much different. We took a shaky but athletic OT that likely isn't capable of being a starter at LT. Then we took fliers on couple of 6th round or lower OG's. In what was considered to be a very strong IOL class, that was extremely disappointing.

Overall, I suspect we are going to net mainly depth guys or players that aren't likely to be on the roster more than a season or two. I am fine with improving the depth on the OL and the versatility of the FA's is excellent for that purpose. However, I am not seeing that either OG guard spot is improved nor certainly the situation at LT resolved.

I get putting on the fan shades and wishing for the best. I also want all these moves to work out. But I cannot simultaneously turn off my brain and ignore the obvious flaws in what appears to be the 2021 Panthers OL strategy. 

Ultimately, I don't think the Panthers FO and coaching staff probably share my view of the importance of having a good(or great) offensive line.

[trueblade]

On 5/8/2021 at 11:48 AM, Moo Daeng said:

I don't get the impression Moton really wants to be here. 

Where do you get that impression? I haven't seen anything.

The only thing Moton wants is for the Panthers to 

[mc52beast]

Don’t really like that “potentially good” OL we might have. Guys on there that nobody was really fighting over.

[mccjeff]

On 5/8/2021 at 4:10 PM, bigdavis said:

OP, shouldn't you have edited the thread title to read, "Ye Olde...?"

And "hast begunist" not "has begunist"

[Khyber53]

On 5/8/2021 at 11:03 AM, MHS831 said:

I am scared they will.  He want elite LT money.  And if so, they let him walk.  I always estimate on the high side, however, so maybe his demands are just a negotiation tactic. Nobody should negotiate in 2020-21 if they could get tagged.

I'd want to see him at LT before we talk about paying LT money. Moton is really good, the best we've got, but if there were plans to move him to LT from RT, they'd have really tried it last season for a few games. 

I think we'll see him offered $12-14 million which would put him in top three salaries for RTs in the NFL and they'll let him test the markets at left tackle. Sadly, that's going to mean he's going to walk. That might not be the worst thing to happen to us, though.

Right tackles are easier to come by than LTs, we all know that. We can, if we have to, replace him in the draft or develop one from the guys we've got on team at the moment. One of those modest LT prospects could be a solid RT for a whole lot less money. And while Moton looks great on our team, we'd have to be major homers to not recognize a bit of bias created by the fact that the other guys around him just haven't been all that good. Like Andrew Norwell a couple of years back, he looked like a beast bookended by a couple of Kalils, but he was just meh when he got the big bucks to go somewhere else.