Albert Breer also has us taking Fields, believes Tepper is pushing for it.

[Panther'sBigD]

These guys are highly paid guessers and gossip columnists. No one knows what Tepper wants outside of the Panthers FO. To pretend like anyone does is silly. 

And Tepper was a minority owner in the Steelers. He was also part of a breakaway contingent that wanted to replace Mike Tomlin, so it's not like he's exactly in lock-step with 'the Steeler Way.' That was more Jerruh's thing. 

Jesusfug, I wish the draft would get here already so you guys could start beating some different dead horses. 

[bandu]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

No argument.

I wouldn't want Jones either, but truthfully I'm not so much looking at particular players as I am particular positions.

I think drafting a quarterback high in our situation is dumb, but that doesn't mean I'd be on board with drafting a linebacker or a runningback (i.e. the Marty Method).

ok it's either one or the other then..

A)...drafting a QB in our situation is dumb.?.

B)...or is it dumb not to draft a QB whenever you have Sam Darnold& & Will Grier battling it out in camp for the starting job? 

Edited April 28, 2021 by bandu

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I guess that’s our main difference of opinion. I think when you are drafting in the top 10 and don’t have a franchise QB, you should always be at least considering getting your franchise QB. In a perfect world we would get better and never draft this high again. Our staff should believe this if they believe in themselves.

That's the thing. Do we actually know for sure whether or not we have a franchise quarterback?

With all due respect to our resident armchair GMs, we don't know that.

Even if you take a guy in the draft, you do so because you believe he could be one, but even then you don't know.

A lot of people in favor of drafting another QB high say so based on their belief that they already know Darnold isn't going to be good. I don't buy for a minute that the team believes that or would have traded for him if that were true.

[ForJimmy]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Again, you think we could have traded for a guy that we don't believe in.

I really have a hard time buying that idea.

There is a nice middle ground here I think is getting missed. Darnold is viewed as upgrade over Teddy, Fields is viewed as upgrade over Darnold. Let’s say they view Teddy as just a backup (I do now) and Darnold has the ability/potential to be a starter in this league, but Fields/Jones/whoever could be the next great young franchise QB, who we didn’t think we would get at 8.

[TheMostInterestingMan]

6 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

So you're really letting the sunk cost of a 4th round pick and future 2nd and 6th round picks keep you from making the pick you would've made otherwise? That's exactly what I hope we DON'T do.

Yeah I agree with you here. If both Sewell and Fields were somehow available then I would personally want Sewell but if the coaches and scouts view Fields as a franchise guy then I hope they take him regardless of what we gave up for Darnold. 

[firefox1234]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Again, you think we could have traded for a guy that we don't believe in.

I really have a hard time buying that idea.

We probably think he is better then Teddy but I don’t think that implies we also believe unequivocally he is our franchise QB.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, ForJimmy said:

There is a nice middle ground here I think is getting missed. Darnold is viewed as upgrade over Teddy, Fields is viewed as upgrade over Darnold. Let’s say they view Teddy as just a backup (I do now) and Darnold has the ability/potential to be a starter in this league, but Fields/Jones/whoever could be the next great young franchise QB, who we didn’t think we would get at 8.

See above.

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Again, you think we could have traded for a guy that we don't believe in.

I really have a hard time buying that idea.

I think we traded relative pennies considering the position for a guy who has some talent to work with (more than Teddy) but who is probably a lon shot to actually work out and the trade compensation tells that story. 23 year old former #3 overall pick QBs don't get traded for a 4th and future 2nd and 6th unless the rest of the league has pretty much given up on him. The most recent close comp to this situation is Josh Rosen. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I think we traded relative pennies considering the position for a guy who has some talent to work with (more than Teddy) but who is probably a lon shot to actually work out and the trade compensation tells that story. 23 year old former #3 overall pick QBs don't get traded for a 4th and future 2nd and 6th unless the rest of the league has pretty much given up on him. The most recent close comp to this situation is Josh Rosen. 

And if he turns out to be a franchise quarterback, that's instantly going to become the best trade this franchise ever made.

[CRA]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's the thing. Do we actually know for sure whether or not we have a franchise quarterback?

With all due respect to our resident armchair GMs, we don't know that.

Even if you take a guy in the draft, you do so because you believe he could be one, but even then you don't know.

A lot of people in favor of drafting another QB high say so based on their belief that they already know Darnold isn't going to be good. I don't buy for a minute that the team believes that or would have traded for him if that were true.

maybe we have a Pro Bowl LT already on the roster.   We don't KNOW that we don't.   I mean all those guys are here for a reason.  Coaches got to believe in them too or they wouldn't be here. 

 

 

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

And if he turns out to be a franchise quarterback, that's instantly going to become the best trade this franchise ever made.

Yep. I'm just nowhere near as convinced of that happening as you are. Honestly, I'd probably out the odds at 95% against. 90% if I'm being generous.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, CRA said:

maybe we have a Pro Bowl LT already on the roster.   We don't KNOW that we don't.   I mean all those guys are here for a reason.  Coaches got to believe in them too or they wouldn't be here. 

There's a big difference between knowing how a player is going to play in your system vs how they played somewhere else.

If you question that, take a look at our free agent signings.

[jayboogieman]

24 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

This is the NFL, there is no such thing as FAIR, produce, and be available -- we moved off our franchise's BEST player for those reasons. 

Darnold doesn't get or deserve a ''fair chance'' if a better option is in the draft, he was Plan F up to this point. 

I've never said Darnold deserves a thing. I've just said he should get a fair chance before bringing in a replacement.

19 minutes ago, firefox1234 said:

Why would a team draft a QB in the first round when they are convinced that the QB they have now is their franchise QB? That was why Cam was never given competition. He proved to the Panthers FO at the time he was the guy.

My argument and many on here have said is that if believe you have your franchise QB then you build around him. However, if you do not believe you do then you keep looking. If the Panthers FO doesn’t believe that Sam Darnold is our franchise QB and think a QB who falls to #8 is then they should select him. It doesn’t’ matter if that guy is Fields, Lance, Jones, or some guy we haven’t heard of. The only reason Fields is being brought up is simple because of all the rumors he could fall and the Panthers potentially valuing him as a franchise QB. 

If they think Sam Darnold can be the guy then they should and will build around him by selecting a non-QB. This isn’t splitting atoms.

Cam never had to prove he was the guy. They didn't make him compete for the starting job as a rookie even though Ron tried to play to the press that Anderson was competition. Cam was handed the job. If competition makes guys better, that is why you bring in another first rounder to compete. 

17 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I want no part of Mac Jones, but this.

Why not? If the Panthers think he is the guy and is the pick, shouldn't you too?

18 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

It’s all about how they value the player. If our staff thinks Mac Jones will be significantly better than Darnold and our new franchise QB, then they would be stupid not to take him if he is there at 8. I happen to be high on Fields so I’m for taking him if he is there.

I know you're high on Fields. I think you're in competition to drive his fan bus.

11 minutes ago, firefox1234 said:

What many of us are saying is that acquiring a franchise QB has to be the starting point because in todays NFL it nearly impossible to achieve success without one. 

Counter to that is how the last two superbowl winning teams were built. The Chiefs and Bucs both built the team before bringing in the QB. It also seems the 49ers are going that route. It seems those winning franchises believe the QB is the cart and the team the horse. A lot of you guys are wanting to put the cart(QB) before the horse(team).

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's the thing. Do we actually know for sure whether or not we have a franchise quarterback?

With all due respect to our resident armchair GMs, we don't know that.

Even if you take a guy in the draft, you do so because you believe he could be one, but even then you don't know.

A lot of people in favor of drafting another QB high say so based on their belief that they already know Darnold isn't going to be good. I don't buy for a minute that the team believes that or would have traded for him if that were true.

Yeah no one (including yourself) knows how the staff views Darnold. They think high enough of him to offer a 4th, 6th, and future 2nd. They think higher of Watson and Stafford than him (they were willing to give up more capital and tried this route first). So all we can assumed is he is valued less than Watson and Stafford and at least a future second (equals a third) and a couple late picks. The story you posted stated we were hesitant about giving a future 2nd so that was probably the peak value. We also know they won’t immediately pick up his 5th year option. Call it draft games or not, it won’t get addressed until after the draft. 
These are all just assumptions made from data we have been given. It can definitely be argued either way, which is why it’s such a polarizing topic.