Horn

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Again....You are BASING this off the results of their rookies seasons, we are in the pre draft process and going off projections where Brown was consider an overrall better player at the time. Taking Becton or Wilfs at the time would have been considered a reach at that time just like taking Horn at 8 would be considered by some people as a reach for us. Thats the point. Nobody was suggesting the panthers should draft Beckton or Wilfs at 6.  

Lastly, how the hell is Brown not pass rushing DT? He had times where he dominated the guy in front of him and created pressures. The sack number doesnt tell the whole story as he showed the same force he did in college and he is gonna continue to get better. By you saying that that just says you really werent watching like that.

No I am not.  I wanted one of the top 4 guys last year and I was vocal about it over Brown, who Marty  televised that we were going to pick.  Brown's knock on him pre draft was that he didnt generate sacks.  So I was totally (and still am) that picking him over a stud LT is not the way you build a team.  And since rhule wanted to trade out it seems I am right.  Just seeing how they performed in their rookie season solidifies my point.  Wills went 2 picks later and that started the run on tackles.  Thats not reaching. 

 

Now answer the question

[Michael G]

Panther's D-Line

Burns, Brown, Jones, Hassan R

Rotate -Fox, Matos, and maybe Roy into the mix. Snow will show lots of different looks and fronts and imagine these guys with the ears pinned back on 3rd and longs (LOLB Burns, DE Fox, NT Brown, DE Matos, ROLB Reddick)

If we get good play from the second level I think the defense will be really, REALLY. good. 

[CRA]

14 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Again....You are BASING this off the results of their rookies seasons, we are in the pre draft process and going off projections where Brown was consider an overrall better player at the time. Taking Becton or Wilfs at the time would have been considered a reach at that time just like taking Horn at 8 would be considered by some people as a reach for us. Thats the point. Nobody was suggesting the panthers should draft Beckton or Wilfs at 6.  

Lastly, how the hell is Brown not pass rushing DT? He had times where he dominated the guy in front of him and created pressures. The sack number doesnt tell the whole story as he showed the same force he did in college and he is gonna continue to get better. By you saying that that just says you really werent watching like that.

Star made our defense.  Star > KK.  KK had the fancy sack numbers though. 

[CPF4LIFE]

21 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

No I am not.  I wanted one of the top 4 guys last year and I was vocal about it over Brown, who Marty  televised that we were going to pick.  Brown's knock on him pre draft was that he didnt generate sacks.  So I was totally (and still am) that picking him over a stud LT is not the way you build a team.  And since rhule wanted to trade out it seems I am right.  Just seeing how they performed in their rookie season solidifies my point.  Wills went 2 picks later and that started the run on tackles.  Thats not reaching. 

 

Now answer the question

I see your comprehension skills are not up to par, so this will be my last response to you because you still aint getting it. First off, if you dont have a stud LT than that should always be at the top of your priority list BUT (stay with me here) that is not relative to the current situation we are discussing right now when it comes to the draft which is you NEVER reach for a need based on where you are picking. Brown is a DT so those guys never have insane sack numbers to begin with but based off his college play and his upside he was projected to be a Top 5 talent in the draft. You say you were against picking him over a stud LT but if that was the case AT THAT TIME then Beckton or Wilfs would have projected as top 5 Talent worthy and the panthers would have been justified in picking them at that spot. YOU had them as studs but nobody else saw enough to warrant that they should have went in the top 10 which would have be considered at reach at that time and course they played well so a redraft could say otherwise. For example, i PERSONALLY think OT Teven Jenkins out this draft is gonna be a stud but based off projecting and rankings he wont be picked in top 10 so i shouldnt expect the panthers to select him at 8 unless they trade down. Do you understand what im saying?  Do you get it now?

If they had of traded out down to the range where those guys were picked it would have been more justified and of course AFTER based off how they played it would have been a great moves as you feel a need and probably walk away with more picks but that didnt happen and we dont even know if they had worthy trade partners so its wishful thinking.

You just said BASED OFF how they performed you were right, Wilfs and becton looking like great picks NOW after there rookies years to warrant being drafted in the top 10 but the point you have to understand is that based off where the panthers were picking in overall analysis of prospects in the PRE DRAFT process was that it would have been to high for those guys and you dont EVER reach for a need.  THats why your question is not relative to the specific discussion because we cant hop in a time machine and see how the guys will do after they are drafted, we have to go off projections and rankings when it comes to the draft right now.

[mrcompletely11]

44 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

I see your comprehension skills are not up to par, so this will be my last response to you because you still aint getting it. First off, if you dont have a stud LT than that should always be at the top of your priority list BUT (stay with me here) that is not relative to the current situation we are discussing right now when it comes to the draft which is you NEVER reach for a need based on where you are picking. Brown is a DT so those guys never have insane sack numbers to begin with but based off his college play and his upside he was projected to be a Top 5 talent in the draft. You say you were against picking him over a stud LT but if that was the case AT THAT TIME then Beckton or Wilfs would have projected as top 5 Talent worthy and the panthers would have been justified in picking them at that spot. YOU had them as studs but nobody else saw enough to warrant that they should have went in the top 10 which would have be considered at reach at that time and course they played well so a redraft could say otherwise. For example, i PERSONALLY think OT Teven Jenkins out this draft is gonna be a stud but based off projecting and rankings he wont be picked in top 10 so i shouldnt expect the panthers to select him at 8 unless they trade down. Do you understand what im saying?  Do you get it now?

If they had of traded out down to the range where those guys were picked it would have been more justified and of course AFTER based off how they played it would have been a great moves as you feel a need and probably walk away with more picks but that didnt happen and we dont even know if they had worthy trade partners so its wishful thinking.

You just said BASED OFF how they performed you were right, Wilfs and becton looking like great picks NOW after there rookies years to warrant being drafted in the top 10 but the point you have to understand is that based off where the panthers were picking in overall analysis of prospects in the PRE DRAFT process was that it would have been to high for those guys and you dont EVER reach for a need.  THats why your question is not relative to the specific discussion because we cant hop in a time machine and see how the guys will do after they are drafted, we have to go off projections and rankings when it comes to the draft right now.

You still didn't answer the question and the tackles went two picks later.  That's not reaching

Edited April 27, 2021 by mrcompletely11

[Jay Roosevelt]

I like Horn fine, but we NEED a left tackle.

[SmartyHurney4]

A lot of smoke on CBs right now. If someone like Lance is at our pick I would hope to trade back a few spots, maybe Denver, and grab a CB if that's what they're really looking for.

[Proudiddy]

I like Horn.  I kind of feel like I'd be happy with any one of Fields, Lance, Pitts, Horn, Sewell, Chase, Surtain, or the other big name tackle.  Horn has the chance to be an absolute lockdown corner and take away a whole side of the field while also providing some much needed physicality as well.  Donte would likely put up huge numbers playing across from him.

All that being said, I'm not sure I have any order on my preferences for the candidates I listed above, although I suspect once we're on the clock I will.

And last point, I see the argument every year about who should've been taken and where and how projections determine value and help influence for better or worse where teams feel comfortable picking certain guys...  so again, I have to put it out there, some players don't have X value, until they do.  Meaning, a lot of teams may not feel comfortable taking a guy at 8, but if we feel he is the guy to take even though he's projected at 25, you take him.  Now, the key is, if you feel he is the guy, can you trade back and still get him to maximize value.  Regardless, if you get the pick right and he plays like a Top 3 pick should, it doesn't matter that you took him 15+ spots higher than he was projected.  It feels to me, like there are a lot of guys in that spot this year, and Horn is one of them, so there is a chance to get outstanding value at 8.

[SOJA]

There is a lot of smoke around the Panthers and Horn right now

That makes me believe we are actually trying to get someone to trade up with us for someone who really wants him i.e. Dallas 

[woahfraze]

I could see Fitterer really wanting Horn.  In Seattle, John Schneider and Pete Carroll were big believers in the SPARQ score (Speed, Power, Agility, Reaction, and Quickness), so I wouldn't be surprised if FItterer is too, as someone that was part of that regime. The SPARQ score is a composite that takes into account multiple drill results to try to quantify athletic ability.  So a player that had a blazing fast 40 time, but didn't do so well in the 3-cone or shuttle drills wouldn't have as good a SPARQ as a player with above average 40 (but not elite) but great agility drills.  I don't know exactly how the single metric is calculated, and it's very possible that different teams weight all the input drills differently. And I don't know what Jaycee Horn scores, but I do know that he would score very, very highly in it.  There's a simiilar measure, Relative Athletic Score, and of 1,748 CB prospects since 1987 to have been graded on that based on their pre-draft measurables, Horn ranks first out of all of them with a perfect 10 (according to Brett Kollman).

This is to say nothing of what the tape shows or how he interviews in person.  But Seattle's MO was to draft big, athletic players and coach them up on technique and the mental aspects of the game. That seems like something Fitterer and Rhule would believe in too.

[Baba Yaga]

Not a fan of this Horn kid

[SmartyHurney4]

I kind of wish there was a combine this year. These top corners are difficult to place.

[ForJimmy]

There was a good series on ESPN with Horn, Pitts, Fields, and Parsons. They all fed off each other and seem to have great competitive personalities that will serve them well in the NFL. Horn can be a little “handsy” but honestly all the elite CBs are to a degree. Jalen Ramsey was talking with him, giving him advice and of course having a NFL dad helps (despite which team he played for) just ask CMC!

[mrcompletely11]

On 4/27/2021 at 1:18 PM, CPF4LIFE said:

I see your comprehension skills are not up to par, so this will be my last response to you because you still aint getting it. First off, if you dont have a stud LT than that should always be at the top of your priority list BUT (stay with me here) that is not relative to the current situation we are discussing right now when it comes to the draft which is you NEVER reach for a need based on where you are picking. Brown is a DT so those guys never have insane sack numbers to begin with but based off his college play and his upside he was projected to be a Top 5 talent in the draft. You say you were against picking him over a stud LT but if that was the case AT THAT TIME then Beckton or Wilfs would have projected as top 5 Talent worthy and the panthers would have been justified in picking them at that spot. YOU had them as studs but nobody else saw enough to warrant that they should have went in the top 10 which would have be considered at reach at that time and course they played well so a redraft could say otherwise. For example, i PERSONALLY think OT Teven Jenkins out this draft is gonna be a stud but based off projecting and rankings he wont be picked in top 10 so i shouldnt expect the panthers to select him at 8 unless they trade down. Do you understand what im saying?  Do you get it now?

If they had of traded out down to the range where those guys were picked it would have been more justified and of course AFTER based off how they played it would have been a great moves as you feel a need and probably walk away with more picks but that didnt happen and we dont even know if they had worthy trade partners so its wishful thinking.

You just said BASED OFF how they performed you were right, Wilfs and becton looking like great picks NOW after there rookies years to warrant being drafted in the top 10 but the point you have to understand is that based off where the panthers were picking in overall analysis of prospects in the PRE DRAFT process was that it would have been to high for those guys and you dont EVER reach for a need.  THats why your question is not relative to the specific discussion because we cant hop in a time machine and see how the guys will do after they are drafted, we have to go off projections and rankings when it comes to the draft right now.

https://theathletic.com/2523317/2021/04/28/2020-nfl-redraft-lions-get-justin-herbert-tom-brady-loses-tristan-wirfs-tua-tagovailoa-stays-in-miami/

 

 

hmmmm.........