Interesting quote on Sam Darnold from the Athletic article grading all QB’s in this draft class

[OldhamA]

6 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

#1 on the list... I desperately want the stat to be dumb because I desperately want Darnold to be the answer. 

Let's be real, we'd be laughing our asses off if we still had a healthy Cam (or any good QB for that matter) and a desperate flailing division rival made this trade and hitched their wagon to Sam Darnold and for good reason.

Some of you are laughing at the Winston situation in New Orleans. I'm sat here thinking "poo, that's a very talented QB teaming up with an offensive mastermind".

They LOVE Hill for his versatility - and I'm sure he's a great teammate. I don't doubt that Winston is the starter though and will be a problem for us. 

The Tim Jenkins video on Darnold highlights this - so many times he's sat there saying "so this is the worst play call for this coverage". Coaching matters, folks. 

To me it's an incredibly shrewd move. Talent wise he's more than up there with the Huddle's 'big 4' (with the guy on the outside looking in on that group going #3 overall ). If it doesn't work out you've lost a high 3rd round pick this year. That's nothing. 

I'm impressed with Fitterer so far - he's filled holes in FA so he can pick the BPA in the Draft. That's how you should do things. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by OldhamA

[ForJimmy]

The draft capital given up for Darnold is a nonissue. As stated earlier it can be easily recouped in a trade down. It’s also the reason if a guy we love is available at the QB position we have the ability to still draft him with a small sunk cost from the Darnold trade. It seems like a pretty smart trade to me given the circumstances. I also like waiting until after the draft to make a decision on his fifth year option. That definitely makes him a little bit more of an investment salary cap wise.

[AU-panther]

26 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

There are so many ways to debate that stat.  We already did it.  When I get back to my computer I will explain why that is a dumb stat all things considered.  

 

12 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

I really wish there was another source of statistical analysis than PFF. 

They burned their credibility with me years ago.

We are talking about a stat from PFF not their grades.  I understand fans thinking their grading is very subjective but a stat like this is pretty straight forward.  Of course there could be a little subjectivity in defining "not under pressure" and accurate throw, but that subjectivity for the most part will be applied uniformly across the league.

What really amuses me is that all of the people defending him probably really haven't' watched many of his snaps.  Go back and watch coach's tape, there is plenty of times when he doesn't have pressure and his receivers are open that he just misses his guys.  The "eye test" matches up with the stat I referenced. 

I'm not trying to totally bash him, I actually think he has talent and tools.  Personally I like the trade for him more than the deal with did with Teddy.  I think there is less risk and the chance for a higher reward.

The fact is he is going to have to improve himself to become the QB that fans around here want him to be.  Better play calling and talent around him will help but his personal play will need to improve also.  Not really a hard concept to understand.  Hopefully our coaching staff will help him achieve that.

Also I don't think he prevents us from drafting another QB in the draft.  Once Watson had the off the field issues, Stafford went to LA, and San Fran traded to 3 I think our front office realized there was a very good chance we might not get a QB we really liked in the draft or free agency and for whatever reason we were determined to move on from Teddy.

 

 

 

 

[OldhamA]

2 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

 

We are talking about a stat from PFF not their grades.  I understand fans thinking their grading is very subjective but a stat like this is pretty straight forward.  Of course there could be a little subjectivity in defining "not under pressure" and accurate throw, but that subjectivity for the most part will be applied uniformly across the league.

What really amuses me is that all of the people defending him probably really haven't' watched many of his snaps.  Go back and watch coach's tape, there is plenty of times when he doesn't have pressure and his receivers are open that he just misses his guys.  The "eye test" matches up with the stat I referenced. 

That's a big assumption to make... y'know, for a stats guy. 

[Michael G]

The QB issue we are in has its roots in Teddy going 0-8 in winnable games last year. If Teddy (and the team) wins 3 of those I think he is our QB again this year. Darnold was not our first option, he is the back up plan or maybe just the contingency plan if Fields is not in play at #8. 

Right now all our "what ifs" and "should have dones" don't mean anything. After the draft we will know what our outlook for and plans for QB will be. Hopefully whoever it is will be able to have time enough and confidence enough to use the weapons we have on office and take shots down the field to win games in the 4th Quarter.

[mrcompletely11]

11 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

 

We are talking about a stat from PFF not their grades.  I understand fans thinking their grading is very subjective but a stat like this is pretty straight forward. 

"Stat".  Come on now, that is totally subjective and not at all straight forward.

[mrcompletely11]

33 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

The clean pocket stat can be misleading. If there isn’t a clean pocket more times than not even with a clean pocket the QB is expecting pressure. It’s how David Carr’s career got ruined. He always had happy feet and was expecting to get tackled even when there was a clean pocket. Gase’s play calling did him no favors. Think Shula’s stubbornness of not leaving a TE or extra help on the line while drawing up long developing plays. Not the best idea for a rookie with a terrible line.
My main concern with Darnold is his alarming number of turnovers in college against PAC 12 defenses...  I know he was relatively new to the QB position, but he hasn’t shown he isn’t a turnover machine yet on either level (I can almost give him a pass on the Jets shitty situation). If he was this raw potential talent that can be coached up, more teams would have been trying to trade for him and we would have had to give up more for him. My expectations are hopeful with a healthy amount of doubt... 

For sure.  Plus he is in year 3 of a dire situation where he has been getting pummeled for 3 seasons.  Just prison raped so of course he is going to be gun shy and who the hell knows what "clean pocket" even is in regards to the jets.  He was also the most pressured qb last season and he had the fewest cleanest pockets in the nfl.  There are a ton of ways to debate that "stat".  I wouldnt hang my hat on that or have it be the end all in defining Sam.

 

I have said since the the trade, there are just too many negative factors that were going against him in NY.  Probably the biggest one to me is that they simply rolled him out there as a 20 year old and then canned that coach and had to learn a new system on a horrible franchise.  He didnt stand a chance.  Hell nobody would in that situation. 

If his biggest negative is simply the turnovers then I would take him over the the qbs not named Trevor or Wilson.  I think the ints can be managed.  I think the flaws on Lance, Mac and Fields are not coachable.

[Martin]

Someone shared the Darnold to Robby stats a few weeks back, and they were really good. 

Darnold’s stats when leading are also not bad.

His stats when trying to come from behind (and not throwing to Robby) are horrendous. Is that because Darnold sucks? Maybe. Is it because his coach is the worst in the league, his o-line and support cast stunk? Maybe.

I’m a glass half full person, so I hope we can bring out Darnold’s good side with good coaching and a strong support cast. 

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, Martin said:

Someone shared the Darnold to Robby stats a few weeks back, and they were really good. 

Darnold’s stats when leading are also not bad.

His stats when trying to come from behind (and not throwing to Robby) are horrendous. Is that because Darnold sucks? Maybe. Is it because his coach is the worst in the league, his o-line and support cast stunk? Maybe.

I’m a glass half full person, so I hope we can bring out Darnold’s good side with good coaching and a strong support cast. 

Thats another thing someone pointed out.  He was playing from behind more than any other qb for the past 3 years.  I mean he was dead in the water from the word go.

[mav1234]

I'm not as excited by Darnold as I would be Lawrence/Wilson/Fields, but he gives us draft flexibility and he is a low cost, high potential option.  And given the likelihood all 3 of those are gone, we have a chance to add a supremely talented guy to our team in the first now.  Honestly, Darnold is a lower risk option than moving up for one of the QBs I like.  Seen as a multi year rebuild, this was a smart move that doesn't force the team to reach for anyone.

Specifically on the player, Darnold wasn't good in New York, but he did show flashes and he has the tools that can't be taught. In fact his biggest problems are things that can be coached.  Doesn't mean HE can have them coached out... we will see.

 

[AU-panther]

30 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

"Stat".  Come on now, that is totally subjective and not at all straight forward.

Then you define clean pocket and accurate throw, watch all of his snaps and then all of the snaps of all of the other QBs and get back to me.  
Until then you are just arguing any stat that doesn’t agree with your wishful thinking with baseless disagreement without offering any kind of concrete stats to prove your point. 

Are you actually trying to say he is more accurate than most of the other QBs in the league from a  clean pocket? 
if so I would love to see what you are basing that on.

 

Edited April 25, 2021 by AU-panther

[Moo Daeng]

Why can't I be hopeful that Darnold improves like people are being hopeful that guys like Wilson and Lance can produce for more than one season at low levels of competition?

Edited April 25, 2021 by Moo Daeng

[mrcompletely11]

16 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Are you actually trying to say he is more accurate than most of the other QBs in the league from a  clean pocket? 
if so I would love to see what you are basing that on.

 

Where did you get that from?  All I am saying is that its stupid to take one "stat" and try and apply it as if it makes him a failure when there is just so much more that is going on with it as documented on here.  The dude was getting beat up every game so how in the hell is he supposed to know what a clean pocket is when he is getting pressured more than any other qb?

 

And yes I have gone back and watched a lot of youtube on him since the trade.  He does have the tendency to make a wtf throw into double coverage but I think we can coach that out of him to at least a check down to cmac.

 

Again I will gladly take Sam, our 8th pick over the last 3 qbs.  I think mac has to go to the exact right situation.  If its sanfran then so be it.  I think Lance's inexperience is way too much to overcome and I honestly dont know what to think about fields.  He is a physical marvel but can he process the game at NFL speeds? 

[Toomers]

20 minutes ago, Moo Daeng said:

Why can't I be hopeful that Darnold improves like people are being hopeful that guys like Wilson and Lance can produce for more than one season at low levels of competition?

Probably because the Panthers have ONE year to bring out something he hasn’t shown before. Then, even in the best case scenario he would get expensive. The rookie QBs have have 4 cheap years for a team to build around whatever they become. Darnold is a lower risk, draft capital wise. But comes at a much less reward as well.