Former Jets scout Daniel Kelly on Trey Lance

[FattyFatFat]

On 4/21/2021 at 11:42 AM, Peppers90 NC said:

I can understand Sewell, maybe, but is Slater even an elite talent? Or are people so desperate they think drafting the #2 or 3 OT is worth passing on an elite player? To me, if Fields is there, we should take him. But I'd be surprised if he makes it out the top 4. Smith, Chase, Pitts, Parsons maybe even Horn are all elite talents and could be labeled BPA at our spot. 

I support the Darnold trade mainly because I dont think Fields will be there at 8, and the staff doesn't either. I can hard pass on Jones and Lance at 8 for any of those elite talents and continue to build the team and see what Darnold can do.

Pitts, Fields, Sewell, or Chase. If it’s not one of those guys, trade back. Slater is a guard. I’m not wasting the 8th on a guard. I’d rather have Farley than Slater any day of the week. 

[mrcompletely11]

48 minutes ago, FattyFatFat said:

Pitts, Fields, Sewell, or Chase. If it’s not one of those guys, trade back. Slater is a guard. I’m not wasting the 8th on a guard. I’d rather have Farley than Slater any day of the week. 

Would Jordan Gross be a guard?

[USC/panthers_11]

15 hours ago, Call Me James said:

What do mean if. He is. And nothing suggests he was good at his job. 

But I'm not really going to waste energy responding to an account someone made to troll the Watson thread. 

And I don't care jack poo about your opinion. 

No, he was. He is not currently an NFL scout. I said "if he was" because I was not familiar with Daniel Kelly prior to this message board thread. However, my point still stands - you don't become an NFL scout without having a lot of knowledge, and his take is certainly relevant. 

You're not going to waste your time responding but you did? 

Troll? Lol. Trading for Watson obviously would've been a horrible decision.  You are not qualified to discuss football with me boy.

[Waldo]

Lol. Lance is going 3rd, Jones is a backup in the NFL. At worst Lance goes 4th after the 49ers choke.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Waldo

[CRA]

23 minutes ago, USC/panthers_11 said:

No, he was. He is not currently an NFL scout. I said "if he was" because I was not familiar with Daniel Kelly prior to this message board thread. However, my point still stands - you don't become an NFL scout without having a lot of knowledge, and his take is certainly relevant. 

 

You also do have to factor in that he isn't a scout right now.  He is writing for clicks.  I mean you can debate the degree of that but it most definitely is written for people on the internet to hopefully read.  And the clicks don't come easy at nfldraftdiamonds.    So the more controversial, the better.  The Skip Bayless approach works. 

[top dawg]

21 hours ago, USC/panthers_11 said:

If he was a former NFL scout, he certainly knows more than you and has good input to provide. 

I'm not sure the majority of the Hiuddle comprehends the talent difference between division 2 and division 1 football (particularly division 2 to a power 5 conference). In addition to Lance facing garbage competition in college, how did he land at a Division 2 college coming out of high school? I wouldn't touch this guy. 

There is a talent difference in general between Division 1 and 2, but there are also talented, NFL-worthy athletes in Division 2, and that's why smart evaluator isolate traits and project whether or not they will work at the NFL level. This is done regardless of whether an athlete comes from Division 1 or Division 2. But your most ignorant insinuation is that NDSU is a D-2 program, which it is NOT. So don't come in here trying to flex when you don't even have your facts straight! There are some knowledgeable huddlers, and not every player outside of a Power 5 conference is "garbage". 

Lastly, another reason why smart evaluators isolate traits is because of differences in talent level across the board. If Lance played against "garbage competition", he also played with inferior weapons. So that argument can both ways. This is why isolating traits is so important!

Edited April 23, 2021 by top dawg

[USC/panthers_11]

4 minutes ago, top dawg said:

There is a talent difference in general between Division 1 and 2, but there are also talented, NFL-worthy athletes in Division 2, and that's why smart evaluator isolate traits and project whether or not they will work at the NFL level. This is done regardless of whether an athlete comes from Division 1 or Division 2. But your most ignorant insinuation is that NDSU is a D-2 program, which it is NOT. So don't come in here trying to flex when you don't even have your facts straight! There are some knowledgeable huddlers, and not every player outside of a Power 5 conference is "garbage". 

Lastly, another reason why smart evaluators isolate traits is because of differences in talent level across the board. If Lance played against "garbage competition", he also played with inferior weapons. So that argument can both ways. This is why isolating traits is so important!

Excuse me. I said division 2 but meant to say FCS. I forgot the terminology changed a few years ago. NDSU is an FCS program, not an FBS program. There are 130 FBS college football programs, and NDSU is not one of them and play at a lower level. 

Or course there are talented players coming out of FCS programs, but by and large, FBS players are more talented, especially players from the power 5 conferences. Trey Lance has played against low level competition in college relatively speaking. This is not up for debate. He could end up being a good NFL player. I don't think they he is worthy of a first round pick. Only time will tell. Thanks for trying to nickel and dime me on the division 2 comment.

[top dawg]

2 hours ago, USC/panthers_11 said:

Excuse me. I said division 2 but meant to say FCS. I forgot the terminology changed a few years ago. NDSU is an FCS program, not an FBS program. There are 130 FBS college football programs, and NDSU is not one of them and play at a lower level. 

Or course there are talented players coming out of FCS programs, but by and large, FBS players are more talented, especially players from the power 5 conferences. Trey Lance has played against low level competition in college relatively speaking. This is not up for debate. He could end up being a good NFL player. I don't think they he is worthy of a first round pick. Only time will tell. Thanks for trying to nickel and dime me on the division 2 comment.

I can only go by what you say, so saying that I was attempting to nickel and dime you is disingenuous. The clarification is great, but what I said regarding evaluation still stands. 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by top dawg

[CPcavedweller]

On 4/21/2021 at 9:51 AM, Mage said:

He’s underrating his arm strength but I do agree Lance is very overhyped/overrated. I’d rather have Mac Jones tbh.

100% agree on his playing speed. 

If their name isn't Fields, Wilson, or Lawrence I'm going to take a hard pass in Round 1. Watching the "Coaches Room" during the National Championship really showed me how Mac Jones was as successful as he was.

He didn't make a single throw in that game that was his second read; one caveat is the RPO game where reading for a run or pass is technically a read. Without the caveat, his first option in the route tree was where he went every single throw in that game. Then you go back and watch highlights of the rest of the season and see the same thing.

Jones was a product of overwhelming talent out wide and a coach who could scheme those guys open. Not a lot of improvisation or reads that depended on Jones' talent or intelligence. 

[CPcavedweller]

3 hours ago, USC/panthers_11 said:

Excuse me. I said division 2 but meant to say FCS. I forgot the terminology changed a few years ago. NDSU is an FCS program, not an FBS program. There are 130 FBS college football programs, and NDSU is not one of them and play at a lower level. 

Or course there are talented players coming out of FCS programs, but by and large, FBS players are more talented, especially players from the power 5 conferences. Trey Lance has played against low level competition in college relatively speaking. This is not up for debate. He could end up being a good NFL player. I don't think they he is worthy of a first round pick. Only time will tell. Thanks for trying to nickel and dime me on the division 2 comment.

The terminology changed from 1-AA to FCS and 1-A to FBS. Not Division 2 to FCS.

App State was FCS (now FBS). Lenoir-Rhyne is Division 2. 

[Mage]

45 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

If their name isn't Fields, Wilson, or Lawrence I'm going to take a hard pass in Round 1. Watching the "Coaches Room" during the National Championship really showed me how Mac Jones was as successful as he was.

He didn't make a single throw in that game that was his second read; one caveat is the RPO game where reading for a run or pass is technically a read. Without the caveat, his first option in the route tree was where he went every single throw in that game. Then you go back and watch highlights of the rest of the season and see the same thing.

Jones was a product of overwhelming talent out wide and a coach who could scheme those guys open. Not a lot of improvisation or reads that depended on Jones' talent or intelligence. 

The fact is 99% of college QBs, even the good ones, aren't making multiple reads on most throws.  I've seen plenty of plays where Jones had no issue moving to his 2nd or 3rd read.

Jones, mechanically, is just so far ahead of Lance.  Lance has a very high ceiling, and by all accounts has a great football IQ, so I do think it could work out for him.  But Jones is just more impressive on tape to me.

[ForJimmy]

22 hours ago, FattyFatFat said:

Pitts, Fields, Sewell, or Chase. If it’s not one of those guys, trade back. Slater is a guard. I’m not wasting the 8th on a guard. I’d rather have Farley than Slater any day of the week. 

I’d be very happy with any of those 4. We just need Lance to get drafted ahead of us and one should fall to 8 with Lawrence, Wilson, Mac, and Lance being the other 4.

[Ivan The Awesome]

On 4/21/2021 at 6:42 AM, Call Me James said:

Former.

Jets. 

 

You see where I'm going. 

 

I don't see how this is comforting seeing as we traded for a Former ....JETS...QB. 

[OldhamA]

22 hours ago, FattyFatFat said:

Pitts, Fields, Sewell, or Chase. If it’s not one of those guys, trade back. Slater is a guard. I’m not wasting the 8th on a guard. I’d rather have Farley than Slater any day of the week. 

What advantage does Sewell have over Slater, besides being 30lbs heavier (which isn't exactly desirable in a zone scheme)?:

• Slater
• Sewell

 

I just don't get this 'generational' talk about Sewell. I see an athletic guy that needs to work on his technique. In Slater I see an athletic guy that has mastered his technique.

Neither one is really tall / long enough for you to drool over them as prototypical NFL OTs - but I don't doubt they can both play there. 

Gun to my head I'm taking Slater, but I wouldn't be opposed to trading out of the pick either. 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by OldhamA