Panthers likely trading back in the first

[frankw]

It seems the last few months of draft hype has created a disconnect in the reality of the expectations of a first round left tackle that has shifted to this mythical franchise trajectory altering prospect some fans have created in their heads. It would be nice if that player actually existed.

[Mr. Scot]

16 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

You realize Rhule has final roster control, right? I don't know how much input Gotta has on the process but I do know that on paper Rhule has the final say.

So you think he's just going to ignore Fitterer's opinion?

Again, I don't know whether Darnold is going to succeed or not, but what I do know is that for the first time in a long time, we have a GM who actually has a scouting background.

I also know, from reading the details of the process, that they didn't just throw a dart at a dart board. Darnold's name came up right after they lost out on Matthew Stafford, and they've given him an extremely thorough look. Yeah, I know a lot of the Huddle thanks this is just a desperate backup ploy, but the facts just don't support that at all.

And while I realize having people put their knee jerk / hot take reactions on hold is a lot to ask around here, that's what I'm doing right now.

Darnold wasn't real high on my list either, but I am actually willing to give him a chance.

(and there are a lot of indications that the team is too)

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, frankw said:

It seems the last few months of draft hype has created a disconnect in the reality of the expectations of a first round left tackle that has shifted to this mythical franchise trajectory altering prospect some fans have created in their heads. It would be nice if that player actually existed.

But the guaranteed, can't-miss, super franchise quarterback that'll take us to the promised land regardless of whether we protect him or not does, right?

[frankw]

20 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

But the guaranteed, can't-miss, super franchise quarterback that'll take us to the promised land regardless of whether we protect him or not does, right?

There is no can't miss prospect that's the point. You're never one player away. But individual decisions absolutely have lasting impacts. Like say for instance imagine if we took Dareus 10 years ago like you wanted. What would the last decade have looked like? As it stands we are putting our hopes and prayers in Sam Darnold pulling a full 180 on his career. Does that not speak volumes to just how important the position has become that we are that desperate despite already having a 60 million dollar  quarterback contract on the books that no one else wants? There is more than one way to build a roster but there is no dispute in what binds said roster together.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, frankw said:

There is no can't miss prospect that's the point. You're never one player away. But individual decisions absolutely have lasting impacts. Like say for instance imagine if we took Dareus 10 years ago like you wanted. What would the last decade have looked like? As it stands we are putting our hopes and prayers in Sam Darnold pulling a full 180 on his career. Does that not speak volumes to just how important the position has become that we are that desperate despite already having a 60 million dollar  quarterback contract on the books that no one else wants? There is more than one way to build a roster but there is no dispute in what binds said roster together.

We're definitely not "one player away" which is a big reason why I think it's silly to bring in yet another quarterback rather than addressing other needs.

[LinvilleGorge]

45 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

So you think he's just going to ignore Fitterer's opinion?

Again, I don't know whether Darnold is going to succeed or not, but what I do know is that for the first time in a long time, we have a GM who actually has a scouting background.

I also know, from reading the details of the process, that they didn't just throw a dart at a dart board. Darnold's name came up right after they lost out on Matthew Stafford, and they've given him an extremely thorough look. Yeah, I know a lot of the Huddle thanks this is just a desperate backup ploy, but the facts just don't support that at all.

And while I realize having people put their knee jerk / hot take reactions on hold is a lot to ask around here, that's what I'm doing right now.

Darnold wasn't real high on my list either, but I am actually willing to give him a chance.

(and there are a lot of indications that the team is too)

I said I have no idea how much input Fitts has in the process.

Once it became fairly evident to us that the Watson ship had fully sailed due to off field issues and that #8 was going to be too low for the QBs we most coveted in the draft, Stafford was our next plan. Once we missed there, we basically went with the best bad option left on the table. At least the trade wasn't gutting. Like I said, a 6th and next year's 2nd and 4th isn't a heavy investment in the QB position.

If he works out, great. If he doesn't, we haven't mortgaged the franchise on it like we would have to have been able to trade up in the draft.

But, no. Honestly I don't think Darnold being on the roster will have a huge impact on what we do in the draft. He's a long shot. I know the staff is hopeful on his talent, but honestly unless they're idiots I think they also know that he is a long shot. We still haven't officially picked up his 5th year option. That's very telling IMO. They're not going to even go that far until they actually see him in person at least at OTAs.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

I said I have no idea how much input Fitts has in the process.

Once it became fairly evident to us that the Watson ship had fully sailed due to off field issues and that #8 was going to be too low for the QBs we most coveted in the draft, Stafford was our next plan. Once we missed there, we basically went with the best bad option left on the table. At least the trade wasn't gutting. Like I said, a 6th and next year's 2nd and 4th isn't a heavy investment in the QB position.

If he works out, great. If he doesn't, we haven't mortgaged the franchise on it like we would have to have been able to trade up in the draft.

But, no. Honestly I don't think Darnold being on the roster will have a huge impact on what we do in the draft. He's a long shot. I know the staff is hopeful on his talent, but honestly unless they're idiots I think they also know that he is a long shot.

I've mentioned before that the whole "this must be what the team thinks of him because it's what I think of him" line of thinking is a fallacy.

You're indulging in that pretty heavily here.

[frankw]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

We're definitely not "one player away" which is a big reason why I think it's silly to bring in yet another quarterback rather than addressing other needs.

What me or you may deem silly is irrelevant to whatever the front office is looking for. They have all but directly confirmed all options are on the table for the first round. Situationally I doubt we will have the opportunity to consider a quarterback if the top of the draft falls as expected. But if a quarterback or two is still sitting and waiting by the time our pick is up we both know due diligence dictates that will be under significant consideration.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, frankw said:

What me or you may deem silly is irrelevant to whatever the front office is looking for. They have all but directly confirmed all options are on the table for the first round. Situationally I doubt we will have the opportunity to consider a quarterback if the top of the draft falls as expected. But if a quarterback or two is still sitting and waiting by the time our pick is up we both know due diligence dictates that will be under significant consideration.

I expect the team to look at all options, just like they did when they chose Darnold.

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, stbugs said:

Lol. Fun to see the bickering. I believe we do think we’ve got a chance to turn Darnold around but we effectively trading our 2021 3rd rounder for a QB how was a top 5 pick 3 years ago. That’s not a lot of investment if he fails. I do think we did due diligence on him (we were in earlier but didn’t want to pay that price) and see things worth taking a chance. You guys can both be right.

No not possible...do you know what year it is?

 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed, and betting on Rhule and Co. to be able to right the Sam Ship...hopefully they can.  I MUCH prefer taking a pass on Sam over trading 2 1's to get the 3rd or 4th best QB in this draft...low risk, and possibly low reward, but at least it isn't franchise altering....meaning, I think it's worth the gamble.

 

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

No not possible...do you know what year it is?

I'm keeping my fingers crossed, and betting on Rhule and Co. to be able to right the Sam Ship...hopefully they can.  I MUCH prefer taking a pass on Sam over trading 2 1's to get the 3rd or 4th best QB in this draft...low risk, and possibly low reward, but at least it isn't franchise altering....meaning, I think it's worth the gamble.

It's not a huge investment, but it's not exactly a small investment either.

What people seem unable to wrap their heads around is that the team's braintrust chose this path. It wasn't forced on them and nobody came out of it thinking "well, I guess we didn't have any other options".

I'm amazed at how many people really don't seem to get that the team doesn't necessarily look at their players the same way the fans do.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Mr. Scot

[Jorgie]

If Sewell or Pitts are there stay put, if not trade back

[LinvilleGorge]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I've mentioned before that the whole "this must be what the team thinks of him because it's what I think of him" line of thinking is a fallacy.

You're indulging in that pretty heavily here.

Read what I actually typed. Refute it if you like, but you're basically answering an actual reasoned, spelled out response with homerism emotion.

[thefuzz]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

It's not a huge investment, but it's not exactly a small investment either.

What people seem unable to wrap their heads around is that the team's braintrust chose this path. It wasn't forced on them and nobody came out of it thinking "well, I guess we didn't have any other options".

I'm amazed at how many people really don't seem to get that the team doesn't necessarily look at their players the same way the fans do.

Don't want to derail, so I'm going to sit right here and say take the T prospect and run to the podium if he's there at 8.  If we trade back, the haul better be steep.

 

That said, I think what the team sees, is an intriguing athlete that has never had really good coaching, and was put into the worst possible situation coming into the league.  They have to believe with their offense and stability they can revive him.  I FULLY support this move over the move to bring in Teddy last season...that was just stupid all the way around.

This was a good move, I have no clue if it will work, but it's a good one.