Regarding fifth year options

[ForJimmy]

13 minutes ago, Stumpy said:

I was asked to name 15 better WRs, I did.

Then people cried that no has ever had to deal with what DJ has.

So I pointed out that Cooper and McLaurin both had qb situations that were as bad or worse.

"Well, technically Andy Dalton was 0.5% better than Kyle Allen!"

I know it's hard for you to follow things,  so maybe you didn't see the goalposts flying by you the entire thread. 

The big issue with the Cooper argument is he had Dak all of 2019 and nearly a third of the games in 2020. Dalton was his low point which would have been Moore’s best QB yet. McLaurin is a much better argument. It’s hard to find WRs excelling with bad QB play which is why Moore is underrated. We showed you the link where he had some of the most uncatchable passes. On top of that we were constantly watching plays last year of him being wide open and Teddy missing him (yes I know this happens to all WRs, but when your top QB is known for check downs it’s an issue).

[Stumpy]

11 hours ago, KSpan said:

A solid list of 15, but none of whom are players with recently established market value of $11MM or more (Agholor, Samuel, etc) and many of whom are 5-10 years older than DJ. I don't agree with all of them being definitely better than DJ but either way am still not seeing an argument against the 5th year option here.

This you?

14 minutes ago, KSpan said:

You're the one who made the claim, not me, and I've not said anything about your QB/WR list or anyone else's. Nor did I say anything about QB situation other than to comment on the comparison that you yourself made and say they both sucked. What are you even on about?

 

[Stumpy]

24 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

We showed you the link where he had some of the most uncatchable passes.

Nobody posted the link. If they did, you would know that DJ drops down those rankings when you take into account who was at fault gor the ball being uncatchable.

link

"PFF tracks every type of incompletion and assigns responsibility to either the QB, receiver or  defender."

...

"That leaves us with Jeudy, Gallup and Moore as the three true receivers that were consistently victims of misfires. Each receiver ranked inside of the top 30 players in average target depth, although the respective talents under center for the Broncos, Cowboys (post-Dak) and Panthers obviously left a lot to be desired throughout the season.

A better way of measuring which receivers were more unlucky than others is what percentage of their targets were deemed to be the QB’s fault. Only six WRs had at least 20% of their targets wind up incomplete because of their signal-caller:

Jeudy (24%)

Gallup (23%)

N’Keal Harry (22%)

Marquez Valdes-Scantling (22%)

Jalen Reagor (21%)

Darius Slayton (20%)

Once again we see Jeudy and Gallup leading the way; Moore only slid to 15th. Believe me: There was far more good than bad to DJM’s game in 2020."

Edited April 20, 2021 by Stumpy

[KSpan]

10 minutes ago, Stumpy said:

This you?

 

Yeah, but none of that is inconsistent with my point that the list of better receivers includes next to no one in the $11M range and that was before you went on a QB quality tangent that I only factually participated in by pointing out something in your own comment... YOUR comment, notine. Again, not clear what you're on about.

[Stumpy]

4 minutes ago, KSpan said:

Yeah, but none of that is inconsistent with my point that the list of better receivers includes next to no one in the $11M range and that was before you went on a QB quality tangent that I only factually participated in by pointing out something in your own comment... YOUR comment, notine. Again, not clear what you're on about.

$11m was your goalpost you added after asking for a list of 15 better wrs.

QB quality was someone else's goalpost that you piled onto.

Then when presented with facts, you accused me of moving the goal posts.

Read the thread if you're not clear. 

[KSpan]

1 minute ago, Stumpy said:

$11m was your goalpost you added after asking for a list of 15 better wrs.

QB quality was someone else's goalpost that you piled onto.

Then when presented with facts, you accused me of moving the goal posts.

Read the thread if you're not clear. 

Whatever man. The $11M comment simply showed that the lists y'all came up with include players gettung paid way more, I didn't pike into anything other than one comment about your non-equivalent QB rate comment and answer your question about Dallas backups starting ganes, and my goalposts are right where they stood while you moved your comparison.

Not sure if DJ kicked your dog at some point or what but you do you and keep on railing about how DJ isn't worth Agholor/Samuel/Crowder/Cooks/Fuller/Shepard money.

[top dawg]

2 hours ago, frankw said:

To go along with your list of receivers you might as well add the quarterbacks who were throwing to them.

Aaron Rodgers

Kirk Cousins

Kyler Murray

Matt Ryan

Drew Brees

Tom Brady

Dak Prescott

Patrick Mahomes

Justin Herbert

Josh Allen

Russell Wilson

It's almost as if talented receivers thrive when they have franchise quarterbacks to pair with. Strange huh?

I would argue that they'll thrive regardless. Some even thrive amid a corps of other nice pass catchers like Hill, Cooper, Evans and others. You can try and attribute it all to QBs, but I say it's more about route running, getting open and making yourself a consistent target.

[DaveThePanther2008]

21 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Breer is one of the best NFL reporters in the business.

Mind you, that doesn't mean he's always right (nobody is).

I like most of his stuff too.

Not only will we pick Moore's option but he should be considered a Core Player that we should retained for most of his career.   

[ForJimmy]

7 hours ago, Stumpy said:

Nobody posted the link. If they did, you would know that DJ drops down those rankings when you take into account who was at fault gor the ball being uncatchable.

link

"PFF tracks every type of incompletion and assigns responsibility to either the QB, receiver or  defender."

...

"That leaves us with Jeudy, Gallup and Moore as the three true receivers that were consistently victims of misfires. Each receiver ranked inside of the top 30 players in average target depth, although the respective talents under center for the Broncos, Cowboys (post-Dak) and Panthers obviously left a lot to be desired throughout the season.

A better way of measuring which receivers were more unlucky than others is what percentage of their targets were deemed to be the QB’s fault. Only six WRs had at least 20% of their targets wind up incomplete because of their signal-caller:

Jeudy (24%)

Gallup (23%)

N’Keal Harry (22%)

Marquez Valdes-Scantling (22%)

Jalen Reagor (21%)

Darius Slayton (20%)

Once again we see Jeudy and Gallup leading the way; Moore only slid to 15th. Believe me: There was far more good than bad to DJM’s game in 2020."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/pantherswire.usatoday.com/2021/04/19/panthers-d-j-moore-robby-anderson-uncatchable-end-zone-targets/amp/
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/pantherswire.usatoday.com/2020/12/09/panthers-d-j-moore-catch-rate-deep/amp/

 

[top dawg]

For the record, I supported Cam, but always said that he needed to get better with his mechanics and decision making. I support Moore, but he needs to work on his route running--point blank! He needs to turn the corner to go from good to great, especially if he wants a top five or ten contract. That's my take, and I'm sticking to it. This applies with or without a fifth year option because it's all about value. Some of you apparently want to give him free reign to/of the safe, and I think he should get a contract commensurate with his body of work, or--if you want to be philosophical--future expectations of him based upon his body of work. I don't think that's hating, I think that it's fair, and I think that it's responsible. That's just the way that I see it.

[frankw]

3 hours ago, top dawg said:

For the record, I supported Cam, but always said that he needed to get better with his mechanics and decision making. I support Moore, but he needs to work on his route running--point blank! He needs to turn the corner to go from good to great, especially if he wants a top five or ten contract. That's my take, and I'm sticking to it. This applies with or without a fifth year option because it's all about value. Some of you apparently want to give him free reign to/of the safe, and I think he should get a contract commensurate with his body of work, or--if you want to be philosophical--future expectations of him based upon his body of work. I don't think that's hating, I think that it's fair, and I think that it's responsible. That's just the way that I see it.

Thank you. This is a much more reasonable take than some of the other posts made about this. Nothing I can disagree with other than I have seen no one saying we should simply pay Moore whatever cost he demands. Of course we would not and should not do that. However the glaring reality is if he has another big season we will have to pay market value and some folks might have reservations about that which is understandable but if you want talent that is the way the NFL works now. He won't be the only tough contract decision either so we may be in store for some unpopular moves if we still find ourselves searching for an answer at quarterback this time next year. Let us hope things work more in our favor for a change this go round.